"Turn of the Century" Thumb Bass Question...

[maddrakkett]

This has probably been addressed several times before, but those threads seem buried away...

How well were the "turn of the century" (I know that sounds REALLY vintage, but I mean year 2000) Thumb NTs for build quality and sound?

I read on other forums that the old wenge necks are better quality and that overall quality dropped after 1998. I don't believe that, but I am looking at a used 2000 Thumb and don't want to find out something was odd that year...

Another "rumor" (I'll call it that for now, until something can be confirmed) I heard is that Warwick switched to ovangkol and bubinga necks because wenge is endangered and hard to get in quantity. Some have even claimed the post '98 NT necks are "a mix of cheaper woods." I doubt that ovangkol and bubinga are "cheaper woods" as I always thought they were higher grade for custom and exotic instruments; I know I love how my ovangkol necks feel and respond on my three Corvettes.

Would love to hear some solid opinions on these things, and I think I'm pretty persuaded anyway to go for the 2000 Thumb, provided I win the auction!

 

[maddrakkett]

To add to this, here's what was said by a poster on the UG forums concerning the supply of wenge:

"I have heard that 1999 is the year that Warwick began using Ovangkol instead of Wenge for their Corvette necks (supposedly due to the break out of civil war in a Wenge producing area of Africa, leading to a scarcity of the material)."

Yet I know that wenge continues to be used in fingerboards and is still an option through the Custom Shop...

 

[maddrakkett]

Also, how are the pickups on the 2000 model, are they active and are the active pickups hum-free?

 

[EVOLVEBASS]

I'm no expert, but as I understand it, ovangkol and wenge are essentially the same tonally. Wenge definitely has a smoother feel than ovangkol, but that may or may not be a good thing depending on your tastes.

Unless modified, they would be active pickups. But I've yet to hear "hum free" single-coils...

 

[ThirdthumB]

This has probably been addressed several times before, but those threads seem buried away...

How well were the "turn of the century" (I know that sounds REALLY vintage, but I mean year 2000) Thumb NTs for build quality and sound?

I haven't heard anyone complain about quality issues as a result of build year. Sure, even things go wrong with a Warwick, but really, I haven't heard about newer Warwicks breaking more often than the older ones. The first Warwicks were entirely handmade, whereas today, a lot of automation is used like CNC machining and fretting. Many people automatically claim that the quality is less good, simply because it's not "handmade".

I read on other forums that the old wenge necks are better quality and that overall quality dropped after 1998. I don't believe that, but I am looking at a used 2000 Thumb and don't want to find out something was odd that year...

Wenge = Wenge, Ovangkol = Ovangkol. Both are proven woods for bass necks. As a matter of fact, both woods are approximately 50% stronger than Maple. Ok, this is only static strength: there are many other qualities required to make a good bass neck.............
I have read only once about a guy who had a Thumb NT with Ovangkol/Bubinga neck with Wenge board (year +/- 2000) who had a delamination problem with the neck. According to that guy, Warwick "admitted" the problem, and recommended sanding the neck and rewaxing. The guy was very upset. Anyway, delamination is more prone to be noticeable on a bass like Warwick, simply because Warwicks have a natural oil finish. I do not know why Warwick switched to full Ovangkol neck with Ebony board though...................Maybe there were problems, but again, I haven't heard anyone else complain............

Another "rumor" (I'll call it that for now, until something can be confirmed) I heard is that Warwick switched to ovangkol and bubinga necks because wenge is endangered and hard to get in quantity. Some have even claimed the post '98 NT necks are "a mix of cheaper woods." I doubt that ovangkol and bubinga are "cheaper woods" as I always thought they were higher grade for custom and exotic instruments; I know I love how my ovangkol necks feel and respond on my three Corvettes.

Wenge is still a hard to get wood. Warwicks were selling more and more, and at a certain point, it was wiser to choose another wood for the necks. Personally I don't think price was the main reason. I think that availability was a bigger concern. Some other bass manufacturers offfer Wenge as well, but it is often an option with an "availability" issue. The price isn't even that high............There is "plenty" of Wenge, but not enough to build each Warwick with it............
Certainly, people will respond that Ovangkol is "cheaper" and of a "lesser quality", simply because warwick switched wood.
A great sounding bass doesn't care whether a certain wood is expensive or not. Ash and Maple are great woods for instruments, but both are cheap woods. A cheap wood will not automatically result in a poor sounding bass.

Just my opinion: I hope it helped. Cheers.

 

[ThirdthumB]

P.S.

If Ovangkol and Bubinga were cheap, they should be used on Rockbasses as well. This not the case. The cheapest 150 bucks bass necks are made, not from Ovangkol, but from Maple (and it is a great wood too).

The pickups are active, and I believe that the electronics work on 18 Volt. Post 2003 (I think) Thumbs run on 9 Volt.

 

[maddrakkett]

Thanks. This has been very helpful. As for hum-free single coils, I do know that Bartolini makes passive ones, but they are a dual-coil design inside of a single-coil package (I use them on one of my Corvette fretless models and I love them - no hum, no buzz ). I also thought that active EMGs were hum/buzz free, even in their single-coils...

I was hoping the MECs were like the EMGs so I wouldn't have to spend extra on a new set of Bart's. I think I'll wait and see how the pups do after I win the bass... 18V should be good for headroom though, so I like that.

I like how the ovangkol laminates (are those thin ebony stripe laminates between the ovangkol laminates or is there bubinga in the neck?) look on the newer necks because they match and blend with the body wood better. But I have no experience with wenge necks, only solid ovagkol and maple and I like ovangkol.

 

[maddrakkett]

The first Warwicks were entirely handmade, whereas today, a lot of automation is used like CNC machining and fretting. Many people automatically claim that the quality is less good, simply because it's not "handmade".

It's a good thing for me that I actually see the logic and prefer the consistency of machining as Warwick now does, because they also do plenty of "hands-on" to still qualify these as fine "handcrafted" instruments IMHO. It's too bad the perception of many is like that.

I never bought into that "mine is better because it's all handmade" myth. All that's needed is the human touch where it counts and Warwick meets that and more.

 

[elpelotero]

i've heard enough soundclips to say that they sound extremely close. My bass has wenge, but the ovangkol SS2's I've heard sound pretty much the same to my ears. Maybe at high volumes or something there'd be a difference, but who knows.

one thing for sure is that the wenge is thinner and ovangkol thicker.

 

[maddrakkett]

one thing for sure is that the wenge is thinner and ovangkol thicker.

That's good to know. The funny thing is, I don't have big hands and I started out on an Ibanez BTB 6-string. Wide, but very thin neck. I always read forums with people complaining their hands were too small to handle the 6-string BTB, but I never had a problem.

Then I read of people complaining about the "fat" Warwick necks, but when I bought my Corvettes, especially my 5-string $$, I found them to be more "at home" than my thin neck Ibanez. I finally sold the Ibanez...

Sounds like the 2000 with ovangkol (I think it's ovangkol/bubinga) is going to fit me just right!

 

[stabbicus]

Great choice! Exact same Thumb I have. If you win it we can compare serial numbers.

 

[maddrakkett]

Great choice! Exact same Thumb I have. If you win it we can compare serial numbers.

Cool! Will do. 3 1/2 days left to see how it turns out. Good to hear of another '00 owner; wish me the best! 8)

 

[Mr Rabble]

...I also thought that active EMGs were hum/buzz free, even in their single-coils...

All active pickups are humbuckers.
Even those looking like J-style single coils.

 

[NeonVomit]

P.S.

If Ovangkol and Bubinga were cheap, they should be used on Rockbasses as well. This not the case. The cheapest 150 bucks bass necks are made, not from Ovangkol, but from Maple (and it is a great wood too).

The pickups are active, and I believe that the electronics work on 18 Volt. Post 2003 (I think) Thumbs run on 9 Volt.

Bolton is 9v. NT is 18v.

 

[Gman]

It is funny how the whole handmade vs machined thing does come up and the perception is that handmade is better. Having worked in a guitar factory (Patrick Eggle) many years ago we started off making all the guitars pretty much totally by hand - carving the tops using gouges, scrapers etc. We later machined the tops and necks.

The interesting thing is that the machined guitars were actually WAY better than the handmade ones due to the fact that they were more consistent.

The important thing with guitars is that they are finished and put together by hand - the machining just speeds up the process. It's the attention to detail and the care that a human being has about the instruments he builds that makes the difference. That element of "no that's just not acceptable - send it back" which means that every guitar that leaves the factory is 100%.

G

 

[Indianerdaniel]

P.S.

If Ovangkol and Bubinga were cheap, they should be used on Rockbasses as well. This not the case. The cheapest 150 bucks bass necks are made, not from Ovangkol, but from Maple (and it is a great wood too).

The pickups are active, and I believe that the electronics work on 18 Volt. Post 2003 (I think) Thumbs run on 9 Volt.

Bolton is 9v. NT is 18v.

My NT (2003) is 9v

 

[Mr Rabble]

...The important thing with guitars is that they are finished and put together by hand - the machining just speeds up the process. It's the attention to detail and the care that a human being has about the instruments he builds that makes the difference

+1

- send it back" which means that every guitar that leaves the factory is 100%...

-1
In an ideal world for sure
I don't know where it happens really

 

[Gman]

Why -1 ?

 

[Mr Rabble]

I don't believe that the presence of a human inspection means that only 100% good instruments leave the factory :roll:

 

[Gman]

Ah, I see what you mean.

Yes, that is somewhat relative to the person and the company. Speaking from my POV, I was the QC guy and never let any substandard guitars through. Although there often was pressure to, I didn't sway as we had to sell them direct to the public, so if it was cak, it worked against you.

There was one particular guitar range that just seemed to suffer from fret buzz - at the time I left there were about 16 sat in the rack that I wouldn't let through!