Power my pre

Gerry said:
Checked with Eden co., no tubes in the 1250 I have as a power section. There are tubes in the 1205 head though. I think 1 reviewer got it confused.
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Where did you get that info?

It says that there are indeed tubes in the WT1250


You have the amp with you
Just open the top to verify
 
babebambi said:
Where did you get that info?

It says that there are indeed tubes in the WT1250


You have the amp with you
Just open the top to verify
Click to expand...
Hey, thanks for the info. I called the company and spoke to a rep/tech that told me this:x Truth is, he seemed really preoccupied with the company moving to a new location and didn't have much time to talk, but he did return my call. Like I said, I trust the info from you guys here. This is the help I was asking for and why I dig this forum. I'll take a peek inside tomorrow but judging from your gear list, I'd say you probably know what you're talking about;) either way , thank you.
I will say that no matter what is in there, it's fantastic! The more time I spend experimenting with it and A/B- ing with other heads, power sections, speaker combinations, ect. the more I dig this thing. The girth and sheer force it delivers without loosing clarity is insane. James Earl Jones is great but this is full on Barry White! I even plugged my bass directly into one of the 1/4 inputs meant for the pre and it was fantasic, other than the drop in volume.
At first, I thought I was going over the top with my "tone quest" but now I see it is just as important as selecting my bass. I mean, why spend hard earned coin on a great bass if you can't hear it properly. This doesn't mean, go spend all you can (or can't) but learning about the rest of your signal chain is just as important to good tone since all electric basses need amplification.
Thanks again
 
Just wanted to thank everyone again for the help given. I worked out a deal with the GC I got the pre from, $950 on a used but mint condition HB 500 mono in the case. It ships today:d. Nothing wrong with the Eden, I just couldn't pass on having a matching set for that price.
From what I hear, it's more powerful than normal 500w amp. My Ampeg V4 is 100-120w tube with huge transformer and it's actually more powerful and cleaner than the Eden and a few others I've tried. My hope is that the HB 500w mono behaves in a similar manner since it's supposed to be designed like a tube amp without the tubes, if Im not mistaken.
Anyone have one that could give me a heads up on what it's real power can be compared to?
 
The hellborg 500 does seem louder than the Eden wt550 I had.
Btw, will you be parting with that wt1250? I happen to be looking for one.
 
babebambi said:
The hellborg 500 does seem louder than the Eden wt550 I had.
Btw, will you be parting with that wt1250? I happen to be looking for one.
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Louder than the 550 you say? I've never tried the 550 but I'm hoping the HB power section behaves like a tube amp and is much louder than a normal transistor head of the same wattage. I guess I'll see in a few more days.
As far as parting with the Wt1250, the jury is still out on that one. As bad a$$ as the HB pre is, the Eden lends true grit to my tone when I want it. Funny thing tho, my Ampeg V4 (100w) seems louder than the Eden when paired with the Hb pre and that's with the 1250 bridged. Maybe something to do with input sensitivity? When the HB power section gets here, I'll see who stays and who goes. Either way, it will be hard to part with the Eden, but if I do, I'll give you first shot and a good deal.
 
Hi Gerry, The hellborg power is louder than a normal solid states amp, but not much louder.
However the whole Hellborg Rig acts different than a other rigs. You simply hear it in a very nice and comfortable way from everywhere, all around the stage. You have a good "comfort" feeling :-)
 
Florin said:
Hi Gerry, The hellborg power is louder than a normal solid states amp, but not much louder.
However the whole Hellborg Rig acts different than a other rigs. You simply hear it in a very nice and comfortable way from everywhere, all around the stage. You have a good "comfort" feeling :-)
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Thanks Flo. From my brief experience at the NYC custom shop, I know the system has the immediate tone I'm looking for, I just didn't get any idea of the power because I didn't crank it in the small shop. The band is about to get rolling again and I don't want to fall short on power. I doubt I will find another HB power section in my price range, so, I might use the eden as extention amp for larger, outdoor gigs without backline.
 
My situation will be reggae and R&b indoor and outdoor. I'll probably be using the Ampeg hlf 4x10 outdoors. Its 500w a 4ohms. I would like to use my 2 Aguilar GS12s (300w @ 8 ohms each) and my Bergantino 2x10 (500w @ 8ohms) together for indoor gigs. My Eden pumps about 400-500w per channel (stereo) and almost 1100w bridged. It can do 2ohms but it's not rec'd to push it like that. My V4 can somehow handle the Berg and Aggies with headroom to spare set at 2ohms. From what I'm hearing, I'll still need more power than the HB 500 mono to push my indoor speaker set up. I went with multiple smaller 8ohm speakers for the portability to gigs in different size vehicles. I may have to get a smaller, lighter 4x10 cab for my indoor gigs, or take a separate power section.
 
Florin said:
Hi Gerry, The hellborg power is louder than a normal solid states amp, but not much louder.
However the whole Hellborg Rig acts different than a other rigs. You simply hear it in a very nice and comfortable way from everywhere, all around the stage. You have a good "comfort" feeling :-)
Click to expand...
dunno about louder - but it delivers 500w at 8ohms with all the headroom you will ever need. At 8ohm this is more than most of the most powerfull bass
amps will deliver (be it Glockenklang Heart Rock or something else :-)

Without the ouptut transformer that lets you select the impedance similar to tube power amps, the hellborg would be able to deliver about 1200w at 2,7 ohms me thinks:-)
 
schlobodan said:
dunno about louder - but it delivers 500w at 8ohms with all the headroom you will ever need. At 8ohm this is more than most of the most powerfull bass
amps will deliver (be it Glockenklang Heart Rock or something else :-)

Without the ouptut transformer that lets you select the impedance similar to tube power amps, the hellborg would be able to deliver about 1200w at 2,7 ohms me thinks:-)
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Thanks for that. I really should have done what I did last night, searched the foum for previous posts where a lot of this was covered. I forgot how long this system has been out. After some checking, I may be better off getting a Hi cab and Club cab eventually. I'll see what it can do with what I have for now when it gets here. I have been lost in the on stage mix, inside and outside before (couldn't hear mysef) and I'm trying to avoid that without bringing a second 45lb amp with me.
 
Turns out, research is invaluable. I realized that asking a 450w per channel amp to feed 500w and 600w on each channel is asking too much, duh! I put one 300w Aggie on each side and shook a guitar off the wall in the next room. The problem with bridging the Eden was, the amp auto selects the ohmage at 2, 4 or 8. I was stringing three, 8 ohm speakers to it which it didn't like. Good thing it's well built. I removed 1 Aggie and "boom", can't put the HB master past 2 o'clock with the Eden bridged channel master at 2 o'clock as well. The V4 has 2 huge transformers and manual selectable ohmage and works well, even with "in between" ohms (6, 2.7 ect) I'll be careful not to stress out the HB. Few more snow storms and the cabs will be on the way.
 
AFAIK, the WT1250 has no impedance selector.
And it does what all normal SS amp do:
it works from the stated minimum impedance all the way up,
with power output decreasing as the load impedance increases.
There is no problem with "in between" impedance.

I don't understand what you mean by
"the amp auto selects the ohmage at 2, 4 or 8"
can you please elaborate?

Did you bridge the WT1250 into three Aguilar cabs?
The WT1250 is rated for 2 ohm minimum each side,
which means it is 4 ohm minimum bridged.

A lot of what's stated in the above post leaves me scratching my head.
I suspect there is a polarity issue between the cabs.
 
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babebambi said:
AFAIK, the WT1250 has no impedance selector, and it does what all normal SS amp do; it works from the stated minimum impedance all the way up, with power output decreasing as the load impedance increases. There is no problem with "in between" impedance.

I don't understand what you mean by "the amp auto selects the ohmage at 2, 4 or 8", can you please elaborate?

Did you bridge the WT1250 into three Aguilar cabs?
The WT1250 is rated for 2 ohm minimum each side, which means it is 4 ohm minimum bridged.

A lot of what's stated in the above post leaves me scratching my head.
I suspect you have polarity issue between your cabs.
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I mean pretty much what you mean. The parameters the amp is intended to operate at, as stated is 8, 4 and possibly 2ohm. Although 2 ohms is not recommended. I know it will operate in between these parameters but the intended wattage will be in between what is listed as well. By whatever means ss amps use to gauge the load imposed on it is what I mean by "internally selecting" the operating ohms. No manual switch like on my Ampeg for example. I don't know a lot about amps so, I'm probably not :?:using the correct technical terminology. The manual says it will operate best at 8 or 4ohms. I asked it to operate at whatever you get when you put 3, 8ohm speakers of different wattage together and expected maximum results. I thought that speakers and amps were designed in such a way to operate best at whatever specs the manufacturer intended, so you know what to expect power wise.
I bridged two 300w aguilars and one 500w Berg, all 8ohms. I'm not sure about the math and corresponding wattage but I maxed out the volume and didn't get as good a result as when I took one speaker out of the chain. The tone improoved as did the headroom. I miscalculated what the output should be and expected it to power all speakers with room to spare. Honestly, I don't know if I "strung" the speakers together the right way. Before now, I used ss heads or combos set at 8 or 4 ohms and matched it with a speaker of the same ohms and didn't worry about it after that. Ahhh, the simple days. Anyway, I hope stuff that I say on the forum doesn't put anyone off from buying gear they may be interested in. I'm just starting to learn about gear and still have a ways to go.
 
Also, when I operated in stereo, I was under powering the speakers and had clipping issues. I now use the 500W Berg and 1, 300w Aguilar in bridge mode. This gives me the headroom I was looking for. Stereo mode sees 1, 300w Aguilar per side. Works and sounds best this way. The Ampeg seems to respond differently with the same speaker set up. Is this because of the output transformers? It works when the manual switch is set at 2, 8 or 4ohm setting and only the tone changes a bit. I'm guessing the damping factor changes? Now I probably really got you scratching your head, lol!
 
Gerry said:
I mean pretty much what you mean. The parameters the amp is intended to operate at, as stated is 8, 4 and possibly 2ohm. Although 2 ohms is not recommended. I know it will operate in between these parameters but the intended wattage will be in between what is listed as well. By whatever means ss amps use to gauge the load imposed on it is what I mean by "internally selecting" the operating ohms. No manual switch like on my Ampeg for example. I don't know a lot about amps so, I'm probably not :?:using the correct technical terminology. The manual says it will operate best at 8 or 4ohms. I asked it to operate at whatever you get when you put 3, 8ohm speakers of different wattage together and expected maximum results. I thought that speakers and amps were designed in such a way to operate best at whatever specs the manufacturer intended, so you know what to expect power wise.
I bridged two 300w aguilars and one 500w Berg, all 8ohms. I'm not sure about the math and corresponding wattage but I maxed out the volume and didn't get as good a result as when I took one speaker out of the chain. The tone improoved as did the headroom. I miscalculated what the output should be and expected it to power all speakers with room to spare. Honestly, I don't know if I "strung" the speakers together the right way. Before now, I used ss heads or combos set at 8 or 4 ohms and matched it with a speaker of the same ohms and didn't worry about it after that. Ahhh, the simple days. Anyway, I hope stuff that I say on the forum doesn't put anyone off from buying gear they may be interested in. I'm just starting to learn about gear and still have a ways to go.
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Major red flag, you put a 2.6 ohm load on a 4 ohm minimum output.
And you tried to push it hard at that setting.
That Eden is indeed well built to have survived that.
 
Yes! That's exactly what happened. The manual says it will do 2ohm minimum but not for long if pushed and won't sound as good. Cheers to Eden for surviving....me. I'm glad all of my testing was done at home and only for short 20-30 seconds at volume. Yet another Eden survival story!
Thanks for your help!
 
Gerry said:
Yes! That's exactly what happened. The manual says it will do 2ohm minimum but not for long if pushed and won't sound as good. Cheers to Eden for surviving....me. I'm glad all of my testing was done at home and only for short 20-30 seconds at volume. Yet another Eden survival story!
Thanks for your help!
Click to expand...

It can handle 2 ohms in stereo mode 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ohms in bridged mode

If you run it at 2,7 in bridged mode it would be like nearly doubling the the power the amp has to handle
Thus your are lucky that you did not destroy the amp
 
Oooooh! Ok then I'm really fortunate. See why I stay current with the forum? I appreciate you guys 4 real! The Eden smells fine, no sign of anything burnt in there. I will now beat myself like that guy in DiVinci Code!
Seriously though, I will take more time reading the manuals of expensive stuff before I even plug it in.
I appreciate straight talk from real dudes too! Thanks again.
 
Might as well continue the lesson, if you guys can bear with me. If i have 2 cabs that are 8ohms each but different wattage, like 500w Berg and 300w Aguilar, does it matter which one goes first in line when connected in bridge mode? I know one will draw more power than the other but does it matter? Before today, I would have considered this a silly question. Now, I just want to be sure since I see low and club cabs in my future.
Thanks.
 
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