What is neckdive ???????????????????????

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ThirdthumB

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It turns out people have different ideas about what exactly they think neckdive is, so I figured maybe we can have a little talk about this. My idea of neckdive is:

Neckdive means that if you draw all the forces acting on the bass, those are two forces from the strap, and one force due to gravity, then you have neckdive if equilibrium cannot be maintained for all (most) angles (usable for bass players) of the bass. To achieve equilibrium, you need an added force, coming from your supporting fret hand, and/or from a friction force resulting from the strap/shirt which will increase the force acting on the strap lock on the upper horn, and lower the force acting on the strap lock on the bottom of the bass. Only then, there will be equilibrium. This is the case with the Thumb bass, for a large range of angles at which the bass is held. I play my Thumb high, and yet, the bass (strap) is pulling at my shirt. Hence, the Thumb suffers from neckdive.

Doc said:
Neckdive to me means that the neck is so much heavier than the body that you notice...
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Any other ideas ?? 8)
 
For me a bass has neckdive, if i can't move it in every position i want without that it's being pulled down somehow.
i.e. if i want to play it more upright, i don't want to have to hold it up - this can cause real pain after some time.
 
Nicely put ThirdthumB! Are you a lawyer? :lol: :lol:

A perfectly equilibrated bass will hang around your neck at a position where it remains in a comfy place without the need of pushing or pulling the neck up/down and/or pulling your shirt.

A "good strap" will help ... temporary ... but while it keeps the bass in place it still adds forces to your back.

*sitting down with the streamer in my knee*
 
You are right... Just it feels weird to me to talk about thumb's neck diving. The bass is THAT good, that I just cannot comment about weight and equilibrium. It comes with the package.

It's like comment about stiff suspension or loud engine noise on a Ferrari :-)

So we can call it neck dive for other basses, and "thumb horizontal position" (THP) for thumbs. Who is with me? :-)
 
Florin said:
You are right... Just it feels weird to me to talk about thumb's neck diving. The bass is THAT good, that I just cannot comment about weight and equilibrium. It comes with the package.

It's like comment about stiff suspension or loud engine noise on a Ferrari :-)

So we can call it neck dive for other basses, and "thumb horizontal position" (THP) for thumbs. Who is with me? :-)
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Im with ya! that or Thumb Standard Positioning!
 
Florin said:
You are right... Just it feels weird to me to talk about thumb's neck diving. The bass is THAT good, that I just cannot comment about weight and equilibrium. It comes with the package.

It's like comment about stiff suspension or loud engine noise on a Ferrari :-)

So we can call it neck dive for other basses, and "thumb horizontal position" (THP) for thumbs. Who is with me? :-)
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+1

Comfort strapp + main force + will power = the Thumb stays in whatever position I bloody well put it (or THP if you want to put it politely)!
 
ThirdthumB i think has the definition pretty much spot on. Neck Dive is something i have come to find with many Warwicks when i was testing them out before i got my $$, heck even that has some neck dive. The upside is that i actually like some neck dive due to my playing position when standing, i like my bass sort of horizontal therefore i find some neck dive to be a good thing. It also makes basses (imo) nicer to play when sitting which is how i play bass 90% of the time mainly due to not gigging as much.

I one of the few basses i've played with no neck dive whilst standing was a f****r jazz, i guess that is like the only thing they are good at....don't get me started on f****rs :roll:
 
It should perhaps be noted that the early thumbs do not suffer from neck dive. Mine certainly doesn't. I'm sure it's to do with the heavy brass bridge in the earlier basses.
 
bassoctopus said:
It should perhaps be noted that the early thumbs do not suffer from neck dive. Mine certainly doesn't. I'm sure it's to do with the heavy brass bridge in the earlier basses.
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+ 1

My 1989 weights around 4,8 kg and the neck doesn't dive
 
Mines an 03 with the new style bridge,I dont get any neckdive whatsoever.
 
My custom, with ovangkol broad neck, extra large headstock and 7 warwick standard tuners has the balance problem solved with the inner piece of the bridge being a solid bar of metal instead of the metal frame found on other Warwick basses.

But the weight is considerable, near 6 kgs. And it still feels a bit neckdiving.

One of the easiest ways to solve this is a headless bass, specially on ERBs which require big headstocks and a large number of tuners.

But I don't like headless that much. I wonder how conklin basses behave seeing those monster necks and headstocks.
 
I'm with Florin.

I play with the neck almost parallel to the floor, with a Planet Waves Squid on the BO4 and a regular old strap on the NT5. No problem.
 
for me, neck dive is any downward pressure from the bass while it is hanging completely on its own from the strap while the player is standing. you should not have to hold the bass up with your fretting arm while you are playing (and not moving around or leaning downwards on the neck side) with a really good instrument. that places unnecessary strain on that arm and does not allow you to play as efficiently as possible.

it is not such a big deal for a lot of players, but for those who do more technically complicated stuff, neck dive could make a world of difference.

a good strap can only help so much. a lot of it is the contruction of the instrument itself. longer strap horns are awesome for that. the warwick corvette and the carvin bb70 series models are excellent examples of this. there is also the weight of the neck, body and headstock that make differences as well. you can also install lighter machine heads (tuning keys).
 
tordensky said:
for me, neck dive is any downward pressure from the bass while it is hanging completely on its own from the strap while the player is standing. you should not have to hold the bass up with your fretting arm while you are playing (and not moving around or leaning downwards on the neck side) with a really good instrument. that places unnecessary strain on that arm and does not allow you to play as efficiently as possible.

it is not such a big deal for a lot of players, but for those who do more technically complicated stuff, neck dive could make a world of difference.

a good strap can only help so much. a lot of it is the contruction of the instrument itself. longer strap horns are awesome for that. the warwick corvette and the carvin bb70 series models are excellent examples of this. there is also the weight of the neck, body and headstock that make differences as well. you can also install lighter machine heads (tuning keys).
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Interesting.

According to your first definition of neckdive, neckdive is not just a property of the instrument, but it is a property of the instrument AND the strap. My Thumb stays put where I want them, if and only if I use the Levy's strap with suede back. I nevertheless feel its tendency to neckdive though. However, with my old slippery strap, I have to support the neck just a little with my fret hand............

I do wonder to what extent different batches of wood can make the difference. What if you have Ovangkol that's like 10% heavier, and Bubinga that's 10% lighter than usual...............are these values common ? And if so, I wouldn't be surprised if this has a significant impact on the balance of the Thumb.
 
i should have stated that was my observation from my experience with a lot of different basses, several of which were carvins (LB70F, BB70, two LB75s, BB70WP) that i had custom built with different woods and such for me over a period of about 16 years. i have also been using the same type of straps for about 8 years. sorry about that. i often leave important details out. :oops:

that is a very interesting query. i am curious as well.
 
tordensky said:
i should have stated that was my observation from my experience with a lot of different basses, several of which were carvins (LB70F, BB70, two LB75s, BB70WP) that i had custom built with different woods and such for me over a period of about 16 years. i have also been using the same type of straps for about 8 years. sorry about that. i often leave important details out. :oops:

that is a very interesting query. i am curious as well.
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Really, no need to apologise at all. :wink: Well, it looks like you're into Carvin; how do they compare to your Warwick ?? Well, anyway, you don't look like an angry goth chick on your new picture with the cute kitty........ :D

Cheers !!! :D
 
want to know what exactly neckdive is? ..then just go play a gibson/epiphone thunderbird :D
 
Malk said:
want to know what exactly neckdive is? ..then just go play a gibson/epiphone thunderbird :D
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Yeah,

I've read about that bass. And I sure will try one someday. :wink:
 
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