speed and technique work on the wick

Thomas

Thomas

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So I'm learning Knights of Cydonia by Muse (my favorite band). During the first verse, Christopher Wolstenholme plays this (with a pick, but I think fingers sound better for me):



I'm having trouble keeping up at 135 bpm.

At this point I'm playing middle, index, middle (2,1,2), middle, index, middle.

Should I switch over to 3 fingers (ring, middle, index)? I don't have as much control but the speed is much easier, especially with triplets. I could probably develop it as well.

Opinions would be great!

Edited to make the picture bigger.
 
way better to learn 3 and 4 fingers technique. Makes playing fast a hell lot easier. You'll just need some time to play sixteenth with 3 fingers and not just do fast triplets.
 
Try using a backstroke technique Thomas.
Stanley Clark is one of the best at this.
Just in case ya dunno what I mean by backstroke.
Using your forefinger,stroke upwards as you would normally.Then hit the string on the down stroke as well.It's like strumming up & down with a pick,but using your finger.
Once you get confident doing this at speed,join in with your middle finger.
Let me know how ya go with it mate. :)
 
Greg said:
Try using a backstroke technique Thomas.
Stanley Clark is one of the best at this.
Just in case ya dunno what I mean by backstroke.
Using your forefinger,stroke upwards as you would normally.Then hit the string on the down stroke as well.It's like strumming up & down with a pick,but using your finger.
Once you get confident doing this at speed,join in with your middle finger.
Let me know how ya go with it mate. :)
Click to expand...

that might be worth a try for me :D

Never heard of that technique
 
Thanks Greg, I'll try that, but when I play this song, I hit the string so it slaps the fretboard for a more shrill, noticeable effect. So everything needs to be downstrokes.
 
I use a 3 finger technique. It might take some time to be able to use it in
multiple situations and build up the ring finger's strength but it's well worth it.
I don't have to worry about certain right hand fingerings when I play any
more. My right hand is completely independent now.

There are a few different "schools" to the 3 finger technique. I know John
Myung has a specific way. Steve Bailey and Billy Sheehan also have
different ways to incorporate it. I would say give it a try. At least for a week.
 
thndrstk6 said:
There are a few different "schools" to the 3 finger technique. I know John
Myung has a specific way. Steve Bailey and Billy Sheehan also have
different ways to incorporate it. I would say give it a try. At least for a week.
Click to expand...

Yeah, always found they were a bit useless to learn. I mean Sheehan is pinky-middle-index-p-m-i, etc...

Myung is something like ring-mid-index-mid-index-ring-mid-index-mid-index-ring, etc....

Most players (including me) are simply ring-mid-index-r-m-i, etc... which is the most logical choice, but I tend to play with some weird finger "routine" while playing at lower speeds. Things like 2-1-2-3-2-1-2-1-3-2-1, etc... You get my point I think
 
you really dont need 3 fingers to play fast 16 notes, you just have to have efficient finger movements.

i play with 3 fingers all the time (most are 200 bpm stuff), but one thing i noticed when you do 16 notes is that its not: R - M - I pattern, since that will end up in a triplet gallop sound. 16 notes (my way at least) are better played with R - M - I - M -R to have a consistent 16 note going... make sure your finger motions are very economical.

what makes this approach different is that you will actually get more string noise resulting in a very trashy style of playing ... if you are doing left finger fast runs, the string noise wont be noticeable... but if you hold just 1 note and use this 3 fingered approach, it will be very noticeable.

if you want it clean, i suggest you use only 2 fingers... you will achieve the speed eventually with practice.

as for me... i use both... there are passages that sound great trashy with the attack coming out, and there are some parts that sound great if you want the note out more than the attack.
 
I didn't think Christopher Wolstenholme played with a pick? I've always seen him just play fingerstyle.

BTW that guy is a machine when it comes to stamina. I've never seen anyone hold a quick 16 beat for an entire song like him! Check out Stockholm Syndrome which is definitely fingerstyle. A much underrated bass player
 
I only use my 3 finger technique if there is 3 notes in a row. If its going up I
do I M R if its going down I do R M I. If there is a group of 6 notes that are
the same note I play R M I R M I. I also use it when string skipping. I helps
play some arpeggios and such. Like in those Erlend videos. I just find it
easier to count/feel how many notes to play when they are in larger groups
(3) than when they are in smaller groups (2). It seems to make patterns and
things look smaller because of this. At least this is how the 3 finger technique
has effected my playing.
 
I didn't think Christopher Wolstenholme played with a pick? I've always seen him just play fingerstyle.

BTW that guy is a machine when it comes to stamina. I've never seen anyone hold a quick 16 beat for an entire song like him! Check out Stockholm Syndrome which is definitely fingerstyle. A much underrated bass player
Click to expand...

+ 1

I've not seen him use a pick and he makes Hysteria look like a walk in the park....knackers my forearm out everytime.
 
this is another one of our songs ... it makes use of a lot of 3 fingered stuff in 16 notes and triplet gallops, some 2 finger 16 note stuff ... and in the final section, theres also actually a 1 finger part *lol*

check out 3:44 and beyond... that's basically the root note version of all the stuff i do as far as my right hand is concerned, and its a good exercise to develop speed. and oh, i accidentally sped up some parts, so dont mind it :)

(consistency is my weakness and im still taking care of that).

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRF-VVzmN50 [/ame]

-*-

there are days where im not capable of playing the intro of the song. it really is tedious and i really have to warm up and condition myself right.
 
guys.

let's not forget the most important things.

135bpm is not THAT fast. If the boy can't play the groups of three sixteenths with two fingers, it's not a flashy 3- or 4- or 11-finger technique that's gonna help him. What he needs is to start slowly, like 60bpm, with a metronome (not a drum machine) clickin at 2 & 4, and practice. And when he gets comfortable at that tempo, and he can play the pattern, like, forever, then he can increase the tempo a bit. And do it until he can comfortably play it at 200bpm for 10 minutes - then he's ready to play it at 135bpm on stage :)

if someone is not confident playing with two fingers, it's not adding another one that they need.

Don't get me wrong, I am a great fan of 3-finger plucking, and I do it myself quite often. It's just not the solution in this particular case.
 
135bpm is not THAT fast. If the boy can't play the groups of three sixteenths with two fingers, it's not a flashy 3- or 4- or 11-finger technique that's gonna help him.
Click to expand...

+ 1 again.

I downloaded the track and was surprised that it's not actually that quick - it's just a stamina thing.

Thomas - get those 2 fingers flappin....practice, practice, practice. :D

G
 
Weird thing for myself is, I need competition if I`m gonna play fast. Without drums to play against/with I`m pretty slow, but with a drummer, I seem to pick ut the pace pretty good.

As said earlier, having a drum machine or metronome going wether it`s two or three fingers you use, will help you either way. Playing fast requiers good timing too.
 
This has been an interesting thread, nice to read about different finger techniques. When i use to play with fingers i used the 3-finger technique and i did find that i often went in to gallop mode during longer songs. I could play fairly quick, but I still find using a pick to be a more effective way to play quickly for a long time.
 
Thomas said:
So I'm learning Knights of Cydonia by Muse (my favorite band). During the first verse,
Christopher Wolstenholme plays this (with a pick, but I think fingers sound better for me):



I'm having trouble keeping up at 135 bpm.

.....................
Click to expand...
`

I see you've got a 5-string. Maybe the open 'E' is
too floppy for this run. Maybe the same with the
very low E-string positions. Try playing the whole
run on the B-string, where you'll be fretted down
to a shorter thicker piece of string. Oops. Maybe
measures 24 and 26 belong on the E-string if the
rest of the run is on the 'B'. You'll work that out.


Also, if you have trouble keeping up at 135, then
practice at 105, but use more fingers and allow
the slower speed to help you get all those fingers
organized into a consistent pattern. Then you'll
have the muscle memory to speed up to 120 and
later 135 or more. But you have to have enuf
fingers at work to handle the higher speeds yet
you MUST train them at much lower speeds and
then work up speed in incremental steps.


`
 
from my own experience its best to learn a few techniques while in your early years of playing. its hard to adjust once you get set in your ways.
I payed the price for not learning different techniques. I have two, the Steve Harris two finger speed demon technique. and the previously mention backstroke technique which is awesome once you get it down.
 
Gman said:
I didn't think Christopher Wolstenholme played with a pick? I've always seen him just play fingerstyle.

BTW that guy is a machine when it comes to stamina. I've never seen anyone hold a quick 16 beat for an entire song like him! Check out Stockholm Syndrome which is definitely fingerstyle. A much underrated bass player
Click to expand...

+ 1

I've not seen him use a pick and he makes Hysteria look like a walk in the park....knackers my forearm out everytime.
Click to expand...
I'm sure he probably does everything fingerstyle, but oh H.A.A.R.P (Their DVD) this song is the intro and he uses a pick. He uses fingers for Hysteria and most other songs though. Thanks for everything. I'm going to see if I can condition myself to play this with two fingers and if I'm still finding that difficult, I'll switch to three.
 
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