profet 5.1 percieved volume - I think I got it..

[shtik]

Hi all!
yesterday I bought the profet 5.1 head with a 115 pro cab. First I was amazed by the price - it was a fraction more then what I've paid for a sweet 15 about 7 years ago. Then I got home and I've found out that this combination wasn't as loud as I expected (in store I tried the 3.2 on display and decided to go for the 5.1 without hearing). Then I looked for this problem in the forum and I saw more people noticed this "problem". I thought maybe this is what it is and that's it... Today I plugged the bass again to try something I saw in the manual but its not very clear there. In the manual it says "Adjust the gain control until the (loudly) played bass signal illuminates the OK LED". I thought "there is only a CLIP LED there"... So I've found that the information about the preamp's gain structure is not very clear. In my sweet 15, when I saw RED I mostly could hear it as well, but here, I see there is way more headroom and there is no audible distortion (not that I've noticed) when the CLIP LED is illuminating on most peaks. the distortion only appears when the LED is constantly on. Now I feel that the gain is properly set and the rig is undoubtfully LOUD as I expected. I would suggest noting that the gain structure is a bit different and it's normal to see the red light on peaks - this doesnt mean audible distortion, and user should not be afraid to crank the gain up a little bit on the red side. Next thing I would suggest to include an orange OK led (as written in the manual - maybe ahead of it's time..) that lights up in the usable gain range and that the CLIP led only lights when there is audible distortion. Then it will be hard to say that the amp is not loud..
So all of you out there, don't be afraid to crank the gain up and LISTEN.
I did it and I am happy now. This is the best rig for the money I could get in my area!

 

[odominguez]

You are right. That's exactly how Warwick Amplifiers work. Basically, as you well put, you need to set the level of your bass to the maximum, and then start turning up the gain knob until the CLIP LED flashes, after that all you have to do is turn the Master Volume knob until you reach the desired level you want to be playing at.

Good luck with your new amplifier and thanks for choosing Warwick.

 

[shtik]

Thanks Oliver. I think that my rig's sound is pretty warm and round as I was looking for (especially considering the fact I don't have the $$ for a descent tube amp). The deep and bright switches are great and they are in the position I used to have them on my sweet 15 - always on (I think it would be a good idea to voice the amp to sound like that from the start and forget about the switches.. but its only my taste). I have a few minor cons though: the compressor doesn't seem to work for me as I think the attack and release times was not set perfectly to the bass signal - attack time too fast and release time too slow (but again it's my taste). anyway, what does the comp rate mean? threshold? ratio? I think it can be put more straightforward than it is. Overall, I find the compressor pretty much a useless feature. The amp already worth the money without it. And last - I don't really know how could the amp leave inspection with one screw hanging out from the casing with the screwdriver groove completely worn out - sign of a war between the screw and the worker (/machine?). Anyway I can't fix it because the screw is damaged, and I think I won't go to replace it only for this tiny thing, I will leave it as it is so maybe final inspection should be tighten up a notch..
Overall, great value amplifier. Thanks.

 

[anarchyok]

I think an issue Shtik is bring up is that perhaps the gain clip led lights prematurely. You can turn it up a long way further up above it simply flashing on loudest notes before you can have distortion.

If you set the gain as Warwick advise - having the clip led light briefly upon loudest note, you'll notice you really need to crank the master to get any kind of volume (see my previous rant posts!). If you use your ears, and boost the gain so that the led is lit most of the time on your lower notes, but not audibly distortion, then you'll get sufficient volume. This was a bit of an issue for me, and it was the reason I trade the amp in.

 

[odominguez]

anyway, what does the comp rate mean? threshold? ratio? I think it can be put more straightforward than it is.

These controls are what make a compressor a compressor. You will find them in almost every compressor in the market.

Rate is another word for clock or speed in the audio industry, in the case of this compressor, it stands for attack time.

Threshold represents the level at which the compressor will kick in and start compressing the signal.

Ratio represents how much the signal will be compressed in proportion to the original.

 

[shtik]

Rate is another word for clock or speed in the audio industry, in the case of this compressor, it stands for attack time.

Threshold represents the level at which the compressor will kick in and start compressing the signal.

Ratio represents how much the signal will be compressed in proportion to the original.[/color]

Thanks, I think I haven't really needed that explanation about compressors

So you mean the threshold there is fixed? On what it depens on, the gain level? And I think (maybe I am wrong) that rate is for measuring speed of someting that is periodic (like sample rate). Anyway, I haven't seen any compressor with "rate" knob. Maybe there is, but this is not as common as "attack". But you answered my question actually..

 

[odominguez]

Rate is another word for clock or speed in the audio industry, in the case of this compressor, it stands for attack time.

Threshold represents the level at which the compressor will kick in and start compressing the signal.

Ratio represents how much the signal will be compressed in proportion to the original.[/color]

Thanks, I think I haven't really needed that explanation about compressors

So you mean the threshold there is fixed? On what it depens on, the gain level? And I think (maybe I am wrong) that rate is for measuring speed of someting that is periodic (like sample rate). Anyway, I haven't seen any compressor with "rate" knob. Maybe there is, but this is not as common as "attack". But you answered my question actually..

You are right on the fact that rate is not as common as "attack" in a compressor. Normally it's easier to find a rate knob is phasers or any other kind of time-based effects processor.

 

[Thomas]

so... setting the gain until it clips and then adjusting the master from there is the norm? I've always just moved them around until i get what i want. not very professional, but it works. (I don't have a warwick head)

 

[odominguez]

so... setting the gain until it clips and then adjusting the master from there is the norm? I've always just moved them around until i get what i want. not very professional, but it works. (I don't have a warwick head)

I guess everyone has their own way of doing things, and again: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". But adjusting the gain until the CLIP LED flashes and then adjusting your master volume seems to be a very safe way of getting a decent volume out of your amp.

 

[anarchyok]

Yes thats generally the best way to set it. But Shtik was saying originally that you need to actually turn the gain above that to get any kind of volume out of the amp. By ignoring the clip led, and turning up till you get distortion on your hardest notes, then backing it off slightly so your signal is clean you get much more volume out of the amp. However if you do it this way, the clip led is virtually light the entire time your playing, which can be disconcerting. I beleive the clip light comes on prematurely, causing people to set the amps with less than optimum gain.

Is that what you were referring to Shtik, and I'd be interested to see Ollie or Seth's thoughts on this issue.

 

[shtik]

Hey anarchyok, now that I've been using my rig for some time in various gigs, I can definitely say that you're right, and I think the clip LED pops up too early, I think I've said it in the earlier posts. I use my head more on the red side, I mean the red LED is on almost all the time throughout the gig, except for the softer passages, yet the sound is clean and free from distortion. I think I can feel some compression but I can't really say because I'm running through a 115 pro cab, so I am not sure if what I feel is the cab response. I am really satisfied most of the time, but on some gigs I wish I had a 410 on top (especially when I use a pick or slap technique). One more thing I've noticed, is that the master output doesn't change much between 8 and 10 but that's really a small thing. I've also used the head with some other cabs (when performing in clubs where they have cabs on stage), 115's (8ohms), and 215 (4ohms), and I feel that the Warwick cabs could have been more sensitive to take some more juice out of the head, even @8ohms, although my 115 cab sounds deeper and rounder than the others. I said before and I'll say it again - best rig for the money.

 

[anarchyok]

glad you're getting the most of it Shtik. Ollie has given some interesting insights into the volume control in another post. Might help you get even more sound!

 

[shtik]

Funny, as you were writing your last post, I viewed that other thread you were talking about..
I really think I got to use the head to the max, I think one more detent up in the gain would be too much (but what the hell I will try it next time when I want more.. see what happens). And I've played quite a few gigs with full master (although when I tried a 4ohm 215 cab, the master was at 4 and the sound guy was like "please turn the volume down!!" all the gig until I got to 2 and couldn't hear myself...). But I think it really depends mostly on the kind of room (or open space) you're playing, what sounds very loud in one place would hardly deliver in a different place.