Noob......

[harry182]

Hey Guys,

Im curently playing through a Marshall 150 BassState b150 (of something) and its had its better days. Just dosnt sound that nice anymore

So looking at upgrading.

Really would like to go down the warwick route, Iv bought two second hand rock bass's and iv never been so happy on a bass

Just after some questions answered really....

Ideally would like to get the Profet 3.3 or possibly 5.2

But the next bit is were i need some advice....

Iv seen a few examples were people have mixed and matched the....

WCA211


WCA411 (4 speaker one)


WCA115 (Big 1 speaker one)...



Just after what does each one offer? and how it differs from the others? and what kinda sound they all make?

Quite like the idea of something like this...



Anything else to think about?

Sorry this is a bit vague

 

[Florin]

Hi Harry,

Any combination is possible, for different purposes, just keep in mind that you need to have two 8 ohms cabs. 211 Pro is 8 ohms only, but 411, 115, etc have two versions - 4 and 8 ohms.

Some combine 2 X 211 pro too, for a easy to transport rig.
One single 411 pro cab (at 4 ohms) should be enough for most of the applications.
If you add a 211 pro cab (remeber, 8 ohms both) you will have a similar sound but bigger, more powerful, better cutting through the band
If you combine 211 wit 115 you have a similar sound but with more bass.
I personally have used mos of the time 2X 411 pro cabinets, for a strong in your face sound

 

[harry182]

Nice sounds good, My next question was going to be about ohms so thanks for that Florin

So the big 115 gives a bassey sound were as the smaller speakes in the 411 and 211 gives you what kind of sound?

I know ideally i need to try them out, but were i live, no one stocks warwick or is likely going to be prepared to bring some stuf in

 

[TylerDurdenPSSC]

The more I come to this forum, the more I want to experience Warwick amplification. I just have no clue how they stand up to Ampeg, GK, or others... Definitely some of the sexiest looking rigs for sure. Im a sucker for blue LEDs for some reason, ha!

 

[Florin]

Nice sounds good, My next question was going to be about ohms so thanks for that Florin

So the big 115 gives a bassey sound were as the smaller speakes in the 411 and 211 gives you what kind of sound?

I know ideally i need to try them out, but were i live, no one stocks warwick or is likely going to be prepared to bring some stuf in

They both sound ballanced, no one sounds bassey or trebbly. But let's say with 115 it is more bass, with 411 more power.

 

[harry182]

Just been looking for some and warwick really really really dont like to make things easy do they? lol

I'd like to go for the profet 5.2 head... I mean, Its only a little more than the 3.3 and be nice to have that little bit more than ill need!

Right this is were total noob-tec kicks in :lol:

Just read what you said earlier Florin about the Ohms....

Can you use just one 8ohm cab or do you have to use two 8ohm cabs every time you use it? Im thinking of getting a head and cab, then getting another one later on?

Also iv seen two versions of the 8ohm 411...

Ones a 600watt....
Warwick WCA 411 PRO 4 x 10 Bass Guitar Cabinet (8 Ohm) - Absolute Music UK Online Store

And ones a 300watt...
Warwick WCA 410 Pro 4 x 10 Bass Guitar Cabinet (8 Ohm) - Absolute Music UK Online Store

Which one do i want to go with to use the 5.2?

also seen the 211 is also 300watt....
Warwick WCA 211 Pro 2 x 10 Bass Guitar Cabinet (8 Ohm) - Absolute Music UK Online Store

If i used the 5.2 with the 211.... will it be as loud as my 150w Marshall?

and which of the 2 411 cans would i get to use with it or would it not matter?

Really am sorry if these questions are a little :|

Cheers in advance

 

[TylerDurdenPSSC]

When it comes to impedence(ohms) it can get tricky. Luckily, in the music world (generally speaking) we (for the most part) run everything parallel.

Two 8 ohm cabs running parallel will yield a 4 ohm load. So, if you would prefer to start off with one cab, I would suggest a 4x11 (or 4x10) as you will be louder. More speakers = more air moving = more volume. Not to mention 1x15 can get sloppy as a stand alone. I look at 1x15 cabs as "extensions" to 4x11's. (or, 4x10's.)

However, an amp designed to run at 4 ohms, isn't using its full potential with one 8 ohm cab. I've run this way ("mis-matched") for a year, and ill tell you this; the difference between running a "4/4" setup and a "4/8" setup is about three decibels, (dB) which is hardly noticeable. Just keep in mind, when running "mis-matched" you won't receive full power. (Ex. A 250W @4ohm head into an 8 ohm cab will deliver about 3/4 its power -maybe more- than if it were with a matched cab.)

BUT!!! If you plan to expand with another cab, I would recommend nothing but 8 ohm cabs all day, as most heads are not 2 ohm sustainable. Thus making 8 ohm cabs the "standard."

Now, of course this is pretty null and void if you were picking a head that has an impedance selector, -such as most modern all-tube heads- but since were not talking about those, well disregard all together.

Now that the basics are out of the way, ill state my personal theory on cabs.

Buy the biggest most badass power hungry cabs you can afford. If there's an option between 300 or 600, (rms) and you can swing the sticker on the 600's, buy the 600's without thinking.

Why? Bcause once you find cabs that you are happy with, you might as well keep'em regardless of your head. Tone can easily be changed with a new guitar, or a new head, but often times eeryone forgets how important the tuning of the cab is to the overall product. (Just watch some David Eded videos on the 'Tube of him tahisng about his XST and XLT lines of cabs. Same number of speakers, same power handling, different tunig.)

For example, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my Ampeg cabs! I find their deep wooly tone no matter what head I'm using whether it be tube, solid state, Ampeg, Eden, GK, or SWR. Cabs are very important, so don cheap out! :lol:

Now, when mis-matching cabs to cabs (not heads to cabs) I would try to mirror the specs as much as possible. For instance, if one handles 300 and the other 600, but the 600 has an identical twin that handles 300, id buy tye identical twin, so that both my cabs handle 300 each. (I doubt this is important, someone else will have to chime in on this one.)

No for my question; is portability an issue for you? Because I was positive that warwick made a 6x11 that would achieve exactly (how I'm perceiving it at least) what you're after.

But the big question is, which do you prefer, 8x10's or 4x10+1x15? Because there's two types of bassists out there, and you can only pick one!! :twisted: Muahahahaha!!! (Okay, you can have both. )

 

[harry182]

Tyler you just through a massive spanner in to the works and spun me out a little further, cheers bud :lol:

Im going to go get a cup of tea, chill out for 5 mins and try and read that again :lol:

 

[harry182]

Right, iv sat down and had another read....

Basically im after buying the 5.2 500watt head, so hopefull, if my 150watt marshall is anything to go by, itll be more than enough for now so in my eyes, thats a crucial part i wont need to worry about untill im in a position were as you said, im sorted with cabs.

defenetly looking at going 8ohms route with cabs

whilst buying the head, ill obv need a cab... So i was thinking (for now) buy the 5.2 with the 211 with the intention of upgrading to the 600watt 411 when time and money allows...

However, how is this going to compare to my marshall? Basically, will it be as loud?

when i do get the 411, could i still use the 211 and make it as a medium stack? it says its a good choice on the product reviews, but would it really be notcible?

theres something like a £200 differnce between the 211 and 411 which with somthing like this, i would usually just bite the built. but when i have to get the head which is £300+, it's a lot of money for me to spend at once

Am very gratefull for the help so far guys

 

[babebambi]

Basically im after buying the 5.2 500watt head, so hopefull,

defenetly looking at going 8ohms route with cabs

whilst buying the head, ill obv need a cab... So i was thinking (for now) buy the 5.2 with the 211 with the intention of upgrading to the 600watt 411 when time and money allows...

when i do get the 411, could i still use the 211 and make it as a medium stack? it says its a good choice on the product reviews, but would it really be notcible?

theres something like a £200 differnce between the 211 and 411 which with something like this, i would usually just bite the built. but when i have to get the head which is £300+, it's a lot of money for me to spend at once

IIRC the 5.2 is 4 ohm minimum ...
In the case, while you CAN mix the 210 with a 410 down the road, it is not going to be ideal; because both will have to be 8 ohm.

And what's wrong with that?
Both cab will received the same amount of power, while one has double the speakers.

IMO, save a little longer to buy the right rig.

 

[harry182]

Ahh, so it has to being using 4ohm everytime? Cant get away with just plugging in one 8ohm?

also 211 and 411 are both 8ohm?

 

[TylerDurdenPSSC]

You can use an 8 ohm load with a 4 ohm head, you shouldn't use a 2 ohm load with a 4 ohm head. Basically with impedance, you want to stay higher than what the head is rated at.

So ideally, you want to run two 8 ohm cabs with the 5.2, but you can run an 8 ohm load, it just won't be as loud. ( ~-3dB's.)

As per your Marshall, I'm assuming its a tube head. Tube power is more than solid state, almost close to double if what I heard is correct. You should be more than louder, babebambi stated, I think you should save for the 4x11.

 

[Florin]

Bambi, I always respected your opinions and your knowledge but this time I have a different opinion, please don't be upset
I think 211 + 411 is a very good setup.

It is almost as loud as a full rig
And it is splittable in three different configurations:
- 211 - for small clubs, small car, etc
- 411 - for "regular" gigs
- full stack for big events, rehearsals.

No I want to remind you that the 211 is 400 W cab!!! Half of Profet 5.1's power is 250 W when it is full turned on. So It will not be a problem matching the cabs.

My advice is:
- Buy only 8 ohms cabs if you plan to buy a full rig.

What the heck, I agree pretty much everything Tyler said

 

[harry182]

You can use an 8 ohm load with a 4 ohm head, you shouldn't use a 2 ohm load with a 4 ohm head. Basically with impedance, you want to stay higher than what the head is rated at.

So ideally, you want to run two 8 ohm cabs with the 5.2, but you can run an 8 ohm load, it just won't be as loud. ( ~-3dB's.)

As per your Marshall, I'm assuming its a tube head. Tube power is more than solid state, almost close to double if what I heard is correct. You should be more than louder, babebambi stated, I think you should save for the 4x11.

Ahh ok thats awesome help, Thats basically all i need to hear

As said to buy the big 600watt 411 and 5.2 head is a lot of money for me to spend at one time when i have a few things on atm,

All the gigs were playing atm I usually DI out or mic up so whilst the 5.2 + 211 set up isnt the perfect set up, By the sounds of it, if its better than my Marshall. so for the moment, itll do the job nicely

will only be looking at 8ohms so i can add as and when i can

cheers again guys

 

[TylerDurdenPSSC]

Awesome, glad to hear we could help you out man. :d

Let us know if you need help with anything else!

 

[babebambi]

Agg... Flo, I am so mad now that I want to smash my Warwick against the wall ... and it's all your fault, lol

... since when have we started worrying about not agreeing on the forum ... in fact, I think that's how it becomes more useful with lots of different opinion

but I still want to add this in regards to 210 @ 8 ohm pair with 410 @ 8 ohm scenario

"... the 211 is 400 W cab!!! Half of Profet 5.1's power is 250 W when it is full turned on ..."
If half of the power is barely making the 210 breath, then the 410 is over-kill with the same amount of power. The general problem with a small cab pair with a big cab of the same impedance (same power level to both cab), you are either pushing the small cab too hard, or you under-utilize the big cab.

Let's put it another way with a automobile metaphor

while H rated tires are good for 130 mph
and Z rated tires are good for 149 mph and beyond

I would NOT put H rated tires on the left
and Z rated tires on the right
even if I never drive above 120 mph

Again, I am just offering my reason for not doing it that way, by no means that it is the wrong way.

Bambi, I always respected your opinions and your knowledge but this time I have a different opinion, please don't be upset
I think 211 + 411 is a very good setup.

It is almost as loud as a full rig
And it is splittable in three different configurations:
- 211 - for small clubs, small car, etc
- 411 - for "regular" gigs
- full stack for big events, rehearsals.

No I want to remind you that the 211 is 400 W cab!!! Half of Profet 5.1's power is 250 W when it is full turned on. So It will not be a problem matching the cabs.

My advice is:
- Buy only 8 ohms cabs if you plan to buy a full rig.

What the heck, I agree pretty much everything Tyler said

 

[TylerDurdenPSSC]

But we're missing the point with the tire analogy!

Wh would ANYONE put different tires on the left side than the right side? Everyone knows you put the Z rates on the drive wheels, and save the H's for the auxillary wheels!

Unless you've got a Left-Side Drive axel... Would that happen to have LSD? (Limited Slip Diff.) And if so, does it confuse people?

:lol: I keed, I keed. I joke vis you! :lol:

(Seriously though, I agree. I always like to match cabs, but I find myself dumbfounded when arguing that the 2x10+4x10 vs. the 1x15+4x10 "Isn't the same thing")

 

[Grgzilla]

I think this underpowering thing is a myth.
The way I understand impedance is like this,
If you have 2 x 8 ohm cabs, they will each draw the same power, respectively, from the amp.
The power handling is their maximum.
Your Ferrari can do 300 kms/h, but it can also do everything up to that speed. It's not like you put your foot down, & you're instantly doing full speed

 

[Florin]

Greg is right. Underpowering a 400 W cab it's lets say useing it like a 20W cab... They will both work into the optimal "zone"

And from personal experience with them - I've tried all these configuration, since I own all the cabs, and it was cool

 

[TylerDurdenPSSC]

Your Ferrari can do 300 kms/h, but it can also do everything up to that speed…

Yeesh, first a left-side drive system, and now Greg is over here making up all kinds of measurements like "kms/h"! Some of you guys will stop at no extent to prove your point!

:lol:

And FYI, I drive Lamborghini, not Ferrari.