Michael Jackson RIP

I wish he had put out more music and less controversy. These days they're playing songs by MJ everywhere, and there's a lot of repetition. Billy Jean, Beat It, Thriller, Smooth Criminal, Bad, and a couple of others that get 90% of the MJ play time. Don't get me wrong, I 'm just saying I feel the output of material was disproportionate to his talent. Anywho... :roll:
 
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jester said:
I wish he had put out more music and less controversy. These days they're playing songs by MJ everywhere, and there's a lot of repetition. Billy Jean, Beat It, Thriller, Smooth Criminal, Bad, and a couple of others that get 90% of the play time. Don't get me wrong, I 'm just saying I feel the output of material was disproportionate to his talent. I'm talking about his solo career. Anywho... :roll:
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Couldn't disagree more.

Controversy is a product of the media. They never left him alone. You take a kid genius like MJ and subject him to that kind of scrutiny and there's bound to be some eccentricities there... all of which people chose to exploit further.

As for the output of material, dig deeper beyond the mainstream. He had whole albums of number 1s. Listen to "Off The Wall" and "Thriller" for example... there's more to those albums than the 'hits'. Even his newer albums were amazing... think of tracks like 'Jam', 'Scream', check out "Invincible". His music was pure genius and so influential, his dance moves like nothing the world had ever seen, and his videos were nothing short of groundbreaking. Output is more than albums and tracks... it's the combination of all the above.

He'll be missed.
 
Perhaps it was badly phrased, I 'm not saying the controversy was solely his fault. But we 're not here to put blame on people or the media. I 'm just talking about the bottom line, what was the actual net "result" the world got from him. I still think his output, at least in quantity, was not on par with his talent. Perhaps one can blame extensive touring for that, but I don't know the details about that. Also I can't help but think that the radical transformation he did to himself caused him all sorts of health issues and he had a lot of time and energy spent in dealing with them which could have been spent in music.
 
Got it... still disagree though heheh :) I mean, the 'result' the world got from him (as stated above), is more than what he put out in terms of albums and tours. He influenced a generation of pop stars and non pop stars alike. I could think of many artists that owe a lot of their sound to MJ.

Let's also remember that he was 50 yrs old...
 
Not to defend some of the things he did, if he really did them, but you have to remember, his childhood was no picnic. If all they say about his father is true, then I can see that messing him up a bit, and as I said previously, he's been a star and under the scrutiny of the media's and the publics eye since he was a little kid, and we have all seen what happens to alot of child stars. So if he was a little escentric, can we really blame him? You know there's no excuse if he really did some of those things, but we also have to remember, the media tends to blow things way out of porportion, that is how they make their money.

But there is no taking away his accomplishments and I agree 100% with Lex. I would go even further and say that his influence went alot deeper than just pop music. He might have been a weird dude, but there's no denying he was a genius who's passing will be felt. We will never know what else he had to contribute, and that in itself is the shame of it.
 
BassPlyr Randy said:
I would go even further and say that his influence went alot deeper than just pop music.
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Agreed.. I mean he revolutionized the music video medium completely. He was really the complete package...
 
He released an album every 5 years post 80s. Last release was 2001 and the later material did not have nearly as much impact as the earlier stuff. You will find a lot of prolific artists that release albums every 2-3 years sustained, or even every year. I can't do otherwise but to attribute what I consider low output to his enormous success but also controversy in his life. And I am talking about too much plastic surgery and the child abuse accusations.
 
jester said:
He released an album every 5 years post 80s. Last release was 2001 and the later material did not have nearly as much impact as the earlier stuff. You will find a lot of prolific artists that release albums every 2-3 years sustained, or even every year. I can't do otherwise but to attribute what I consider low output to his enormous success but also controversy in his life. And I am talking about too much plastic surgery and the child abuse accusations.
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Pop artists, bands in general are no stranger to controversy. The Red Hot Chili Peppers for example (a band that has consistently released music), one of my favorite bands, were a bunch of heroin junkies. Britney and other pop stars have totally gone off the rails.

Why should MJ be singled out?

Personally I couldn't care less about his plastic surgery. As for child abuse accusations — they are 'accusations', he was never convicted and everything was settled out of court for a large some of money (convenient). Sounds like extortion to me!

Regardless, neither surgery nor allegations have any bearing on his music or quality of his output. Remember, you're talking about a guy who made his debut as an entertainer in 1968.. that's 41 yrs of output (or 33yrs if you want to go by studio albums alone) in a career that spanned music, film and dance. The controversies are but a small blemish on this record.
 
The controversy is not the issue here, nor it's causes. I am talking about its final impact on MJ's output, which i consider more than significant. He had all the right in the world to do as much plastic surgery as he wanted, but you can't convince me it did not cause him all kinds of health issues affecting his everyday life and of course his work as an artist. It may have cost him his life as well, we won't get to see him in this last tour he had planned. I also totally believe the child abuse accusations were extortions made for the money, but that affected him as well, it reduced his popularity (albeit momentarily), caused him trouble with the law and severe distress. It was a big thing.

I pass no judgement on artists at all, not RHCP, not MJ, not Britney Spears, not anyone. Even if they do things I consider unacceptable in their lives, I tend to differentiate that and "judge" them for their artistic output only. You wouldn't believe the tolerance, but I feel it's the right thing to do. My personal opinion about MJ is that he was an incredibly gifted artist, with severe psychological problems early on in his life that got much worse with his enormous success, and cost him much. I sympathize with him immensely, and part of me was kind of grateful that he has found the rest he needed.

I was listening to an interview a couple of months ago by a local artist, and he made the assertion that you have to have some kind of psychological issue to get involved with music. At first it struck me as strange but I don't know, it could be true. It certainly has been the case with some really famous artists. And I have a feeling that for most of these artists it was not the success that caused the issues but perhaps the issues work in an invisible way to cause the success. Something like this...
 
All good points Jester — I get what you're saying!

jester said:
I was listening to an interview a couple of months ago by a local artist, and he made the assertion that you have to have some kind of psychological issue to get involved with music. At first it struck me as strange but I don't know, it could be true. It certainly has been the case with some really famous artists. And I have a feeling that for most of these artists it was not the success that caused the issues but perhaps the issues work in an invisible way to cause the success. Something like this...
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Yeah I've heard that too — I think bipolar disorder is prevalent in a lot musicians, not to mention other psychological issues.

Doesn't surprise me though when you consider the amount of sh*t musicians have to deal with. We'd have to be crazy to enter this business. Slave away learning your instrument, write great music, put a band together... only to try and impress some knob-jockey at a label. Get signed, be told how to sound by the label, have your album shelved, release it 2 years later and sell a million copies but still be broke... tour for 18 months playing the same stuff so you can make some money, then get dropped by your label. It's enough to drive a normal person to insanity.

:)
 
I was just about to ask, why the hell do we do it though? It seems that things we "enjoy" and things "we want to do" are not one and the same...

Lex said:
...put a band together...
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The best analogy I have heard for this: "It's like trying to herd cats" :lol:
 
Yeah who knows mate!!! I mean, I would be lost without it.

I did 2 gigs last night, one with my rock band (20 minute set)... it was a showcase and we were bumped back 2 slots because some wannabe Lady Gaga pop act had her label PAY the venue to perform... we had to sit through her bullsh*t for 30 mins (she sang to prerecorded tracks and and had 4 back up dancers on stage blowing bubbles.. seriously) before we were allowed to rock out. We smashed it to pieces of course — but, because it was a showcase at a prominent venue in NYC there was no pay. After that I went straight to my hip hop jam which began at midnight and ended at 3am. Again, not a high paying gig but a ton of fun (I left my bass at home and played keyboard bass on the Moog).

People don't understand why I would be bothered doing anything mentioned above. I live for it. It's not about money, fame, anything like that. I'd sacrifice everything for it (sleep and sanity!). I just think its in our blood, and a pretty undeniable force at that.

As for your analogy — it's so true. One of the hardest thing to do is keep a band together, especially with everyone these days playing with as many different artists as they can to scrape together a living. I admire those bands that have stuck together.. it's really tough especially in the beginning when there's no money or guarantees of success.
 
jester said:
The best analogy I have heard for this: "It's like trying to herd cats" :lol:
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Yep...herding cats is difficult...[video=youtube;Pk7yqlTMvp8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8[/video]
 
Lex said:
All good points Jester — I get what you're saying!



Yeah I've heard that too — I think bipolar disorder is prevalent in a lot musicians, not to mention other psychological issues.

Doesn't surprise me though when you consider the amount of sh*t musicians have to deal with. We'd have to be crazy to enter this business. Slave away learning your instrument, write great music, put a band together... only to try and impress some knob-jockey at a label. Get signed, be told how to sound by the label, have your album shelved, release it 2 years later and sell a million copies but still be broke... tour for 18 months playing the same stuff so you can make some money, then get dropped by your label. It's enough to drive a normal person to insanity.

:)
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"Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love – they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
-The Third Man, 1949

No offense to the Swedes.
 
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Amen Lex ... it is in our blood and its in our soul. Music is part of us. Whether your a serious professional musician, weekend warrior, or just a hobbiest, it is part of us. I went about 3 years without even picking up my bass or even my guitar. During that time I went through the most serious case of depression that came incredibly close to being a fatal case of depression. Right at the end of it, I bought my 5-string rockbass and started getting back into playing. Let me tell you. I now know for a fact, a good part of my depression was the lack of music in my life. I am still depressed, but am coming out of it, but music, and someone on this forum litterly saved my life. (and no, I still have no intention on talking to you, you betrayed my trust). So I don't know if we have to have pcyhological (sp?) problems to be a musician, but I do know, a musician that doesn't have music in thier lives will diffentaly develop problems.
 
Brave words Randy! Well said mate and i wish you the best and am sure everyone is behind you here on the forum.
 
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