Flight

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Greetings everybody,

I will be flying to NS from Alberta in January. I have a question about flight and Warwick basses.

When I flew out here, my Streamer's action was all messed up. So this time, flying home, I have 3 (plus a PRS guitar) and its Winter. I'm worried to say the least.

What can I do to prevent any damage? I'm assuming its the altitude.

Any help from someone who has flown with their bass?
 
I would think it would be cheaper to ship the basses rather than to take them on the plane. Never done it myself, but....
 
Take them to a pro when you get home, if they are messed up. But yeah, at least loosen strings to allow the neck to adjust itself.

Other than that, its coincidenses that count.
 
Extremely Long Post Warning.

First, if you read no further, Do Not loosen the strings on your bass for this trip until you have read what I have to say about it under the prepping your bass for the trip section or unless talk to the instrument Manufacturer and they recommend it. In my opinion and from my research into it, loosening the strings of the instrument is a long held fallacy and could actually cause the instrument more harm. This is a subject you need to research for yourself and then do what you believe is right.

Below I have put together some ideas/suggestions that might help you when it comes to flying with your instruments. I have flown twice with a bass guitar and luckily both times the instrument was in the cabin. What follows is merely some ideas to get you thinking about how to best do this and maybe some little tips that may help you along the way. This is actually a fairly common thing and I’m sure there are a lot of people on this forum that can advise you without making it as drawn out as I have, but what can I say, I am a long winded sob. I initally put the prepping the bass section towards the end of the post then after rereading it moved to the top. Sorry if it reads a little disjointed or a mention something that I actually haven't said yet. By the end, it will all make sense. Also, some of it is pretty simplistic, I appologize for that too.


*First – Seriously consider having your instruments professionally packed and ground shipped to your destination. Still a risk, but could be a lot less risky then air travel.

* Prepping your bass for air travel.
- The first thing I would do is contact the manufacturer, as in Warwick customer support and ask them what their recommendations are. Think about it, Warwick or whoever, ships their instruments worldwide and often that consists of air travel. How does Warwick prep a bass for air freight?
- Detuning strings. Although a lot of people, including the airlines tell you to do this, from everything I have read, this is actually a no no and should not be done. Think about it. The neck of your bass is designed to be held under tension. That is when it is at its strongest and is most stable. Most manufactures tell you not to remove all the strings when changing strings. That is to keep the neck under tension and at its most stable condition. By loosening your strings, you are actually making the neck less stable and thus making it more susceptible to temperature changes and changes in pressure due to elevation. Again, your neck will be more stable if you keep it under tension. I have read that some people will detune their instruments one half step when flying, but no more. This would be a question I would pose to the instruments manufacturer and trust their experience and expertise in this matter. The two times I flew with an instrument, I kept it tuned to concert pitch and had absolutely no problem. However I must say, both times the instrument was in the cabin with me. Once it had its own seat, and once it rode in its hard shell case in a coat closet. If you are unable to get the manufacturers opinion on this for some reason, I would say that you really want to make sure you get the opinion of someone that actually has experience with traveling by air with their instrument and not just rely on the well meaning poster that is just relaying what they heard. This includes me. Like I said, my experiences were a long time ago, early ‘80s, and both times the instrument was in its hard shell case in the airplanes cabin.
- Pack the instrument appropriately. It would be easier to bring your instrument on board with you if it were in a gig bag. However, if it had to go in the planes cargo hold, a gig bag would mean almost certain damage. Every horror story I have ever heard about air travel and peoples instruments being damaged was a result of rough handling and not once from the actual flight. If your instrument is not going to be inside the plane with you, then it needs to be in a good case; preferably an actual ada approved flight case. Remember, baggage handlers don’t know you from Adam and frankly don’t care how valuable the contents of the case are. All they know is that they have to hurry up and get this plane loaded because there is always another one to load that is equally in a hurry. You might also be surprised that there are some jag offs out there that get their kicks from messing up someone else’s stuff, so the better you protect it in the first place, the better off you will be.
- If you know it’s going a cargo, I would suggest disguising it so that it is not so clearly recognizable as a instrument. What I would do is have it in a flight case, but then have the flight case in a box to help hide it. You will want to let the attendant at check in know what’s inside so that the xray doesn’t send up any red flags with all the metal associated with a flight case. The reason I am saying to disguise it is simply because the airline has a right to open any piece of luggage whether it is locked or not. And by disguising the case you run less of a risk of someone opening your case just to see the pretty guitar. If you lock your case, the airline has the right to break the lock open to inspect the contents. Disguising the case will just help deter this from happening. Also you have to consider theft. Your instrument has a lot less chance of walking off if it just looks like a big box as opposed to looking like a fancy instrument case.
- As far as backup plans are concerned (discussed later), one thing I would consider doing is bring both your flight cases and gig bags with you. If you get to bring the instruments on the plane in a gig bag, then cool your flight cases just make the trip in the hold all by themselves. However, if for some reason you can’t bring the basses on the plane, you still have the ability to put them in their flight cases for safe transport. And in fact, having them in a flight case disguised as previously mentioned might just be the best way to travel with them in the first place.

* Do ASAP - Call the airlines and find out their policies concerning traveling with your bass guitar. You should probably make them aware that you will be traveling with more than one (if that is the case). The following is some key points to consider and/or questions you might want to ask. Remember, the point of this is to get you thinking, so if you think of something, then ask that too.
- First thing to remember. These people don’t know you and frankly don’t give a rats a** about you and your problems. There’s a good chance they been dealing with rude, obnoxious people all day long. You have to remember at all times dealing with anyone at the airlines; these are the people that can help you. However, they are the people that can screw you over too, so it is important to win these people over so that they want to help you. Be friendly and try to make a personal connection with these people. Write their names down (obviously not if your standing right in front of them, they could take that the wrong way) and use their name often while talking with them. Make sure you introduce yourself, and anytime they call you sir or ma’am, correct them, “Oh please, call me Randy”. This will help get them feeling like they are dealing with someone they know and will be more likely to want to help you.
- Keep track of everyone you talk to, who they are, and a brief note of what they told you. This could come in very handy later down the road. Generally do this on the sly so they don’t worry your trying to get them in trouble or something. Unless of coarse it is someone being intentionally rude or uncooperative, then making sure they know you are taking their name down could help turn them around. However it could cause them to become even more obstinate, so you really have to play that by ear. There are a couple benefits of knowing the names of people you have talked to. Of course the obvious, if something bad happens, you have a record of who told you what. But, the benefit I think could help you the most would be the appearance of having connections and for opening doors. Example, “You know Karen over at customer relations, she told me that you were the person that might be able to help me with this”. Just be careful so you don’t sound like you’re just name dropping. That could work against you.
- Ask about their policies for carry on luggage. Including, but not limited to size and weight restrictions. You should really impress upon then how valuable and fragile these instruments are. You may also have to coax them along a little, especially if you are talking to someone who doesn’t have much experience with this situation. Questions like “isn’t there anything you can think of that might help” might just get them to come up with an idea that could work to your advantage. Remember, the airline is generally going to give priority to people and their little briefcases and laptops over your bulking bass, so inquire if it would be better to book a flight that was less likely to be full and if they could help you with that. Remember, no matter what you are told, when you actually get to the loading gate things could change so you would be well advised to have one or several fall back plans so at the last minute you don’t end up having to hand over your $3000.00 custom shop bass protected by nothing more than a gig bag and have it unceremoniously thrown in that cargo hold underneath a pile of overburdened suitcases. Not a pretty image is it. So remember to ask these people questions that will help you devise back up plans.
- Ask about their policies about buying a seat for your instrument. I have done that once, but that was back in the early ‘80’s. I know today they are much stricter about such things. Again, a flight where they are not fully booked might really help considerably here. To an airline, an empty seat is like losing money so they may well take advantage of the chance to sell an extra ticket. But remember, just because some ticket seller sold you a ticket, doesn’t 100% guarantee that come boarding time they will allow you to bring your bass on board, so remember to have a backup plan ready.
- Make sure to find out is there is some place or some way you can get their polices in writing so one, you can read it for yourself, and two, you can show it to the ignorant slob at the gate who is not aware that what you are trying to do is well within the airlines policy.
- Ask anything and everything else that might remotely help you devise your plan and backup plans.

* The Big Day – First, if possible try not to put yourself in a bind where you have to take this flight over perhaps waiting for a later flight that day or even the next. This will help you avoid the unthinkable scenario where you hand over your beloved instrument at the last minute to an uncertain fate because you’re in a time crunch. If your schedule and finances allow, try to book your flight a day or two early so that if something happens, you have the time to implement one of your backup plans.
- As most people know, it has gotten crazy to get through airport security these days and almost everyone knows to arrive at the airport early. But your situation is extra complicated and you would be well advised to show up extra early. You need to make sure you have plenty of time to make sure your initial plan is in fact going to work If not, you will then have time to implement one of your backup plans.
- You got there early, so don’t wait till the last minute to ensure the plan is going to work. Talk to the attendant at the gate and make sure they understand what it is you are planning and make sure that at the last minute your plan won’t die. Remember the talking to the airline personnel tips and try to endear yourself to the people at the gate. If they are sympathetic to your cause, they can be very helpful and might even allow you to board early or with the first group so that you can get settled and out of the way before the general boarding begins. This is something that you might suggest if they don’t come up with the idea themselves. Push that getting out of their way aspect. That could easily be the key that could make or break your plan.
- If you have to allow your baby’s to ride with the luggage in the cargo hold. Try and get permission to actually be able to see your instruments get loaded into the plane. They clearly will not allow you to go in the cargo hold, but just seeing that your instruments made it into the plane safely could be a major stress reliever. Remember to document everyone you talk to and if you hand your instruments over to anyone, make sure you have their names and employee identification.



Well, sorry this post was so long and sorry I have such a tendency to ramble, but I hope this post at least got you thinking and perhaps there was a gem or two in it that you found helpful. Good luck. And when you get your instruments home safely, please post how it went and what all you did. Perhaps with enough actual experiences from people on this forum, we could put together a pretty good guide to air travel with your beloved instruments.

Peace
 
paperbag1213 said:
I don't see how the altitude would effect it?

There's a couple of issues at hand. Pressure differences at different altitudes and temperature changes. First, have you ever went to the mountains and at some point your ears clear? That is due to the pressure differential as you travel to the higher elevation. Likewise it clears again on the way down. Its your ears adjusting to the pressure difference. The higher up you go, the less pressure you encounter. You know the strings on your bass are pulling tension on your neck. It's basically pulling the head of your neck upwards and towards the bridge. Along with the natural characteristics of the wood and the truss rod, the earths gravity and air pressure are also effecting your neck and its balance to the tension being pulled by the on it by the strings. So at high altitudes, there would be less pressure on the neck and the belief is that if the tension is not relieved from the strings, it could adversely bow or warp the neck. There have also been stories that because of the lesser pressure and the tension being pulled by the strings, that it has ripped the bridge clean off a guitar. Never seen proof only heard old handed down horror stories. The other major problem associated with this is how fast the pressure changes. The change from say sea level to 30,000 feet is a drastic pressure change and happens in a matter of a couple minutes. This means there is the potential for fast drastic movement of the basses neck. Not good. And of course, you have the same problems landing. I had read about an experiment where a plastic bottle was emptied and sealed at a high altitude (sorry don't remember the details) and when it was returned to the ground, the bottle was crushed because the air pressure inside the bottle (taken at the higher altitude) was actually lower in pressue then the air outside the bottle.

Another problem is that with the air being thinner and of lower pressure, it is colder. The drastic changes in temperature can play heck with the finish of the insturments. At least those with a pinted finish. It could cause cracking. In theory, since the instrument is wood and is glued together, the glue and or the moisture if the wood could also be affected and the instrument itself could crack.

I tried (sorry not too successful) to keep this post short so I over simplified everything, but it should give you at least an idea of how the altitude effects the instrument and why air travel with your instrument can be so touchy. But as I said in my other post. This is common. Think about where do you live. Is your bass made in the same continent that you live on? If not, it had to get there somehow and I would be willing to bet it probably came by plane at some point. As long as the proper care is taken, it should be no problem. The problem is, exactly what is the proper care?

Peace
 
I have read all replies and think I may have made a decision. Perhaps sending them FedEx or something would be better. Mind you I dont want to think of the costs.
I appreciate all the replies, especially randy's as it went into great detail which helps in a scenario like this.

One thing I should probably mention is exactly WHAT happened to my bass when I flew out here though.

When I recieved my SS2 (in a Warwick flight case) after flying out here and got it home, it was
a) freezing cold, and
b) its neck was all out of whack. The guy at the local music store said it was a mess.

My main issue now is the 2 extra basses and guitar.

Normally with me and my girlfriend flying home and being able to take 2 luggage each, that would mean I could take all 4 without extra cost. Where as a shipper may cost me. Which, to be honest, is money I don't have. Not to mention everything else I bought that has to be shipped. TV, amp, other unrelated items.

After all this advice, I realize it should be me that makes the ultimate decision, but what would you guys do in this case?
 
i would say bring one bass with you in the cabin and the others into cargo just pack them very well! Good Luck!
 
you can bring them on the plane, I brought a guitar, and two basses, and they allowed me
 
paperbag1213 said:
you can bring them on the plane, I brought a guitar, and two basses, and they allowed me

What? Are you serious?

Do I just call and ask in advance? How does one go about this?
 
Call them, make sure that your basses are near the exit, or else you have to go in the opposite direction while everyone is trying to exit the plane, VERY BAD :lol: :lol:
 
`

A molded case for a 76 key KB holds a bass in a
gigbag. Such cases can be had with wheels. It's a
fairly easy deal for the inspectors to open up and
properly reclose. The case doesn't scream "Steal
this geetar" as it's just a ribbed rectangular plastic
box, same as the many trade show booth displays
that travel constantly.

I'm an advocate of trying to find product stickers
for a product that etiher cannot possibly fit in such
a case, or is just not worth stealing, or preferably
both. Frinstintz, if the outside of the case promotes
"asphalt pavement sealing services", you've got a
toofer: services are not stolen by stealing a box,
and the contents would likely be some posters or
advertising materials.

#&@#&&#&#&#&@#&&#@&#@&##&#&@&#@#&


Here's a last thought that I just newly thunk just
now. OK. So you "dress down" the case but you're
concerned that the suspicious images on the xray
thing will lead to trouble. A shaped metal logo that
says "Fender" [no other name will do !!!] can be in
the case in such a way as it will show on the xray
scanner and look 'normal'. AFAIK there is nothing
criminally suspicious about musicians 'recycling' or
repurposing luggage to protect their instrument, so
the fact that outside says "weather seal services"
while the inside [xray] says "Fender" should not be
cause for alarm. All over the world "Fender" means
geetar, and will help the inspector to recognize the
rest of the xray image as the strings, tuners, etc.

`
 
paperbag1213 said:
Call them, make sure that your basses are near the
exit, or else you have to go in the opposite direction
while everyone is trying to exit the plane, VERY BAD
:lol: :lol:
`

You were EXTREMELY lucky. Reports of totally inconsistent
policies from phone call, to ticket agent, to gate desk, to
cabin attendants, are rampant. It's like everyone involved
works by personal whim of the moment. There's so many
people involved and all you need is just one to screw you.

You can think you've got everything double checked and
all your ducks are in a row, and be told on arrival, or on
entering the cabin, that whoever promised you whatever
you were promised is either crazy or nonexistant.

Even getting promises or policies in writing is worthless !!!
Pleasant experiences to the contrary of this warning are
just anecdotal tales of good luck and good people, but do
not count on it, do not generalize from it. It's your ax :-(

ASSUME A "WORSE THAN WORST CASE" SCENARIO,
AND BE PREPARED FOR EVEN WORSE THAN THAT.

`
 
golem said:
paperbag1213 said:
Call them, make sure that your basses are near the
exit, or else you have to go in the opposite direction
while everyone is trying to exit the plane, VERY BAD
:lol: :lol:
`

You were EXTREMELY lucky. Reports of totally inconsistent
policies from phone call, to ticket agent, to gate desk, to
cabin attendants, are rampant. It's like everyone involved
works by personal whim of the moment. There's so many
people involved and all you need is just one to screw you.

You can think you've got everything double checked and
all your ducks are in a row, and be told on arrival, or on
entering the cabin, that whoever promised you whatever
you were promised is either crazy or nonexistant.

Even getting promises or policies in writing is worthless !!!
Pleasant experiences to the contrary of this warning are
just anecdotal tales of good luck and good people, but do
not count on it, do not generalize from it. It's your ax :-(

ASSUME A "WORSE THAN WORST CASE" SCENARIO,
AND BE PREPARED FOR EVEN WORSE THAN THAT.

`

Again... Have backup plans ready.


Peace
 
I just flew to China with my Rockbass Corvette in an SKB-44 flight case (with some extra foam added for a tight fit).

Just chucked the bass in, didn't sweat about loosening strings.

The bass arrived safely, and was still in tune when I grabbed it to play. No tweaking required.

I'm not an expert - this is the first time I've flown with a bass, but it worked out just fine.

;)
 
paperbag1213 said:
you can bring them on the plane, I brought a guitar, and two basses, and they allowed me

This totally depends on the airline. I enquired with Cathay Pacific before I flew to China, and they assured me that it would not be allowed.

I had to check the bass with my luggage.

They didn't charge me any extra, as I was careful to keep the rest of my luggage light, and the bass arrived just fine (see above post).
 
I emailed Warwick and inquired as to how they would reccomend air travel with a Warwick Bass. This was their response...


Dear Mr. R,

I travel all the time around the world and I never tune off the strings or the trussrod,
I pack the Bass as it is, take it into the plane or even ship it in a bag as luagage and
never had a problem...

So do not tune the strings off, leave the bass in your condition and thats it...

o.k.

All the best

Warwick GmbH & Co Music Equipment KG
Warwick Music Equipment Trading (Shanghai CN) Ltd.,Co.
Warwick Music Equipment Trading (Zurich CH) GmbH
Warwick Music Equipment Trading (Praha CZ) s.r.o.
Warwick Music Equipment Trading (Warsaw) Sp. z o.o.
Warwick Music Equipment Trading (Manchester UK) Ltd.

Markneukirchen / Germany
H.P.Wilfer 28.10.2008, 06:33

Hope that helps.

Peace
 
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