Are we that rigid?

One Bad Monkey

One Bad Monkey

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I've been playing with my band now for about four months as their regular bassist (and a couple months prior as a hired gun). While learning over ten years of music is a big feat, it's something that I've really enjoyed doing. They cover a variety of world styles/beats, and that in and of itself has been challenging and inspiring. They've made suggestions on how to approach songs, I've listened, tried some stuff their way, tried some stuff my way, found a lot of middle ground and everyone's been happy.

What has really made me tilt my head and say "Really?!" is that I'm constantly told how flexible and willing I am to try something different for the song, or to keep the original bassline. As an example, one of the songs that I'm re-recording the bass part for is one of their old staples, that has a very particular bassline. It's nothing fancy, but it REALLY FITS THE SONG and on my fretless, it is really going to sing (or, I assume it will. Haven't tried it yet). Apparently, the former bassist (he was bassist #3 for the band) was very vocal about not playing someone else's part, refused to do it and recorded this line that really sounds like he was playing a completely different song.

I'll admit that I only know half of that story, but it hasn't stopped there. At a lot of my freelance gigs, I've heard the same thing in regards to taking critique and just being open-minded to try something new, whether it will ultimately work or not. I just can't imagine being that rigid as to say "No, I'm playing it my way, period." Anyone else? Am I missing something?
 
I don't understand, I guess, do "difficult" players actually get gigs? I couldn't work that way. Maybe they are friends first and band mates secondly, and that is why they tolerate that type of stubborn behavior? I would fire them, but that's just me. :)
 
I bet that guy is loosing a lot of gigs because that attitud. To be a good player you don´t only need a great technic, great timing, and feeling, you also need to be flexible, to hear what the music is asking for, even more if you are a freelance player.

I think we, bassits, have to get to a point to know when a line fits a particular song, and when it doesn´t.
 
I agree. I've started reading Wooten's book, "The Music Lesson," and the title of the second chapter sums this up well: Don't Lose the Groove to Find the Note. Or, like someone once told me, "The more I learn, the less I play." I didn't really understand that until the past couple of years.

And for a bit of clarity, when I was referring to freelance gigs, I wasn't meaning that it was the same bassist that I was hearing stories about. Completely different circumstances and different people involved. With the freelance thing, it was music directors speaking in general terms (i.e. a lot of difficult musicians in the area, I guess), which makes sense that the more I've freelanced in theatres, the more I play with the same people over and over.
 
I recently had have been learning my new bands songs, luckily there are only around 10 of them so far. I got the same thing, they were really happy with the fact i was happy to play the original bass lines (i mean they worked so well and defined most of the songs anyway so changing them would be silly) they also really liked the input where the older bassist was unable to play more complex lines and my input into playing it differently or adding something else (melody, passings notes, etc) to help the song flow more naturally.

For some reason not everyone can do this and get very stuck in the whole change everything to suit their style or tastes. I guess it just means the more flexible guys who and willing to work with other people and play the music will get more gigs, i'm pretty ok with that!
 
One Bad Monkey said:
I agree. I've started reading Wooten's book, "The Music Lesson," and the title of the second chapter sums this up well: Don't Lose the Groove to Find the Note. Or, like someone once told me, "The more I learn, the less I play." I didn't really understand that until the past couple of years.
Click to expand...

That is a FANTASTIC book! I've learned so much about playing with other people just from reading that little book. It's actually sitting on my desk right now, hehe. Last night, I talked with a guitarist who is much more experienced with playing gigs than I am. He told me all of the things bass players DON'T do that annoy him. Every single thing he named off happened to be in The Music Lesson.
 
This is an awesome trait to have. You will only get richer and richer musically. The magic of music lies in the interaction between the people, instruments and sounds. If a musician sets rigid limits the interaction and exchange becomes problematic and frustrating. :d
 
I totally agree with the need to be flexible and the need to do what is best for the music. Luckily for me, I learned the less can be more lesson when I was first starting my journey. At 12 and 13 I was fortunate to be playing with seasoned musicians that were in their mid 20s - 30s and knew their craft, so I had a bit of a jump start.

While the lead singer may think he's the leader of the band and everyone seems to sing the guitar players praises, in reality, we all know, that generally, its the bass and drums that hold the song up and give it a solid foundation. That being said, it is imperative as a bassist that we do what is best for the song. If that means sitting back and playing whole notes or simply driving the root note, then so be it. With an established song (cover or someone elses original) it is important that we maintain the integrity of the song by playing the bassline that has been established with that song. Unless of coarse the goal is to change it up on purpose than all bets are off. (although I still feel to be successful a remake of an established song should still have a familiarness to the original, something that average Joe Music Listener can relate too).

The idea of a bass player refusing to play a bassline because someone else wrote it is ludacris to me. I do tend to have a propensity for wanting to add my personal touch to the lines I play, you know, to make them more intune to my style/sound. But never at the expense of the song and if its someone elses song and they say this is what they want, than that's it, that is what they get. One example that comes to mind is actually a guitar example, Freebird - Lynard Skynard. Almost every Joe Music Listener out there can hum the lead guitar solo to that song. (See, you're doing it right now in your head) So when that part comes up, if the lead guitar player starts playing something different because he refuses to play someone elses solo, everyone will know it, and more than likely, he just ruined the song for everyone. And for what? Self gratification? Some rediculous idea that they believe they are too good to have to play a solo/part that someone else wrote. Imagine the Lemon Song with a totally different bassline... wouldn't be the same song. When it comes to playing someone elses music, imo, some respect should be shown to the original artist. Whether it be the whole piece, or just the bassline.

The ability to work well with others and get along is key for a successful musician. You have to be willing to be flexible and do what is in the best interest of the song/band. Communication between players is an absolute must and when one member thinks they are too good to have to listen or do what is best for the song, then I am afraid that musician is doomed to fail. And when you're a hired gun, you're there to play what they tell you to play, period. Try being a studio musician. Most times, they will hand you the sheet music and that is what you play, refuse, and there's the door.

There are very few Primadonnas out there that can or will get away with that kind of behaviour and bros let me tell you, if you have one in your band, cut the dead weight now, because in the long run, they will be the main obstacle to your possible success. And if your one of these people, please take some advice and change your ways. Problem musicians and/or trouble makers generally get tagged as such and you will find your options getting smaller and smaller until finally there is noone left around that will have anything to do with you ... no matter how good you may be.
 
i never had a problem playng someone elses songs one drummer i used to jam with could never get anyone to play what he was hearing in his head i used to sit down with him and try and work out what he was thinking and he could come up with good songs he just lacked a way to get it out except ffor playing the drum part.one of my freinds is a pro drummer and his nickname is jpm.just pay me.he told me his job is to play as he is told not what he thinks and he gets the gigs.i got a couple of gigs because i played what the band wanted and the right bass lines for the songs i just sat in the back with the drummer and didn't step on anyones toes.and after a while the other guys gave me a lot more room in the bandwithout me pushing for it.
 
Thanks gents, it's nice to know that I'm not just wrong on something. I'll admit years ago that I was "that guy" that wouldn't play other people's stuff, but as the years went by I realized playing music is important, and no matter the bassline I'm playing (even as simple as the Temptations' "My Girl"), it's going to sound like me, period.

Trey, I'm really digging that book, and I'm only onto chapter two. I'm approaching this book as "read a chapter, sit on it for a week to think about it and try to apply it," and immediately it's been cool. A latin tune I was working on with the band, I was trying a cuban bass pattern for the verses, and to be honest, something just wasn't fitting. So, like the book, I stopped playing. I asked the guitarist to play his part that he's doing, and suddenly the bassline was right there. Funny thing is, it was almost exactly like the cuban one I was doing, but with a note moved over an eighth-note to jive better.
 
I think you have to be flexible, especially if you are playing covers. Sometimes a song just needs that particular line and you can't change it....

Having said that, I am a very bad bass player, technically, ha ha! So I play only in two bands with original songs. I just do what's in my reach, but I always try something special, something different, improving myself and more. We sometimes do some obscure covers, but I don't want to copy basslines. I just listen to a song a couple of times, if possible on my laptop (those speakers don't have any bass) and I will come up with a bassline of my own.

So I understand the guy a bit, but he has to get a band with original songs and no covers band.
 
Curtis said:
So I understand the guy a bit, but he has to get a band with original songs and no covers band.
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It is an original band that he was a part of. From what I was told, he just didn't want to play any of the old songs with the old bassline, regardless of whether the lines were good for the song or not. It sounded to me - and again, I only have half the story - that it came down to ego more than making music.
 
I'm so awesome, I'm the best bass player in the world and only I know the ultimate way to play bass.


[/sarcasm]
 
That's just so sad. The guy probably doesn't even realize that he's just hurting himself and his reputation with those kinds of actions. I can understand ego, God knows, I can understand someone having a big ego, but, at least imo, that is just self-destructive behaviour. It would be one thing if the guy was asking or suggesting that he could/would/should change the basslines but to refuse to play the lines to an already established song is just rediculous. Nobody wants to work with people that are difficult so in the end, all he is accomplishing is that he's creating a negative reputation for himself. I mean just look at this thread, people already have formulated a negative opinion of this guy. I know I wouldn't want to work with him just from what little I heard. Is that fair to him? Probably not, but that is the real concequence of his actions. As OBM said, he only heard half the story, and yes, it can and may well be exaggerated, but generally, there is a basis of fact for stories like this. All Im saying is, no matter what, misunderstood, exaggerated, whatever, he just created an obstacle for himself, and damaged his reputation.


And Flipper, I totally agree with you .... You are the most awesome bass player to ever walk the face of the earth ... second only to me! Hahahahahahahaha
 
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I think that kind of bass players just don`t know how to catch or tune in to other basslines than their own, or they are so fueled up on that "do your own thing 140%" that they`ll miss the chance to learn something : that adding a personal touch can be so little, yet do a lot.

I guess this person won`t travel the world, except for his own vincinity. ;)
 
Inflexible musicians are usually young musicians at their first band. If that first band becomes famous, htey remain inflexible.

But then again, you can call that "character"

Most of the musicians learn to be flexible during the years.

Some of the best remain inflixible, and strong on their position, and they create new ways of playing music. I doubt Jimmy Hendrix was too flexible.

I think either way is OK, it depends on what you want.

Music is beautiful!
 
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