Are there any live/studio engineers on this forum?

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GrindcoreHank

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Hi guys,

while reading some of the threads in this part of the forum, I thought it would be nice to have an 'engineers thread.' Besides being a multi-instrumentalist, I also study sound engineering. I have been playing music for most of my life. A few years back I decided I want to become a studio engineer. Now I'm halfway through the course. In the institute where I study, I learn about both live and studio engineering.

Now I was wondering, are there more engineers on this forum?

My idea of the 'engineers thread' would be to have a place where people like me can answer questions on topics such as:

- Sound shaping in the studio.
- Sound shaping live.
- The reason why the two topics above are not the same.
- Home recording. (Anything about software, hardware, tips & tricks, etc.)
- Why you don't need to turn up your amp to 11 to be heard well by the audience.
- EQ 'cheat sheets.'
- Tips & tricks for musicians that are entering the studio for the first time.
- Tips & tricks for musicians that are about to go on stage for the first time.

Of course engineers can also discuss their own approach to various situations with each other. I've experienced that this can be very helpful as well.

I'd really like to hear what you guys think about this idea. Also, if you guys want to add anything, it's more than welcome.
 
That sounds like a very cool thread! until more engineers are coming, maybe you do some nice tutorials/ tips!
For example I just bought a compressor - the distressor, and I am planning to use it live for large stages, so I ammopen for an advices here...
 
I like everything about this post!

I'm not an engineer, but it is definitely a plus for a musician to have as much engineering/recording knowledge as possible. It helps him know where an engineer is coming from when they are communicating. It's also good to be able to play around with stuff on your own and record yourself.

Great idea!
 
I'm always happy to chip in if anyone has any questions, particularly for live sound.

I used to work for a big PA company in the UK. Many great memories from that and had the pleasure of working with some big names. Live engineering is something I no longer do for work but still greatly enjoy doing whenever I get the chance.

Had a fair bit of experience engineering in studios but it's not really something I enjoy as much.
 
Cool! So Alex, since you know the distressor, what settings do you recommend me? Is the british option usable for bass?
 
I wouldn't really recommend the British mode for bass as it's quite harsh. It has a really aggressive profile and was really meant to sort out signals that are temperamental in nature (we used to use it all the time with drums, occasionally on vocals). You have to keep the release really quick with it to keep it working properly too.

I'd just recommend 6:1 profile with a mid value attack, and set the release to your playing (it's the release that you have to be most careful with to keep a natural sound). Nothing too fancy :)
 
Hey guys,

thanks for the responses so far! I'm glad that you like my idea.

@Florin, I have no experience with the Distressor. Could you tell me what brand it is? That way I can read into it, and help you more accurately. Also, what style do you play when using the Distressor? I'm talking about both the style of music, as well as the playing techniques. One thing that's also important for me to know is: what kind of sound are you looking for? I can also advise to read some basic stuff on how compressors work. When you learn the function of each knob you can find on a compressor, you will be able to dial in a setting/sound you'll like more easily. Besides that, learning the relation between certain knobs will probably be helpful as well. There's one thing you should keep in mind: The sound coming from your amp, and the amount of compression you hear on stage can be very different from what the audience will hear. This has to do with the amplification factor/gain factor. For example: when you amplify a signal to four times it's volume/loudness, your dynamic range will also be multiplied by four. So when your bass sounds slightly compressed, but still quite dynamic on stage, the audience might hear something completely different. The front row will probably still be blown away by the peaks in slapping/popping sounds. That's why most front of house engineers will choose to compress your bass sound as well. My advice on this is that you should get your compressor to enhance the sound in a way you like, so the engineer can do his own thing as well. If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask them.

@Stroud, when using the Distressor for bass with the 6:1 ratio, do you use a high or low threshold?
 
GrindcoreHank said:
@Stroud, when using the Distressor for bass with the 6:1 ratio, do you use a high or low threshold?
Click to expand...

Can't really answer that because it would always depend on the mix and the bassist. It's hard enough to suggest settings as it is because sound in general is so dynamic, things are always set up from scratch and always different. I suppose in general i'd be using a slightly lower threshold on bass than i'd use on other signals.



The unit is Empirical Labs btw.
 
Nice thread and a great idea Hank! My dad is a producer and has his own studio here in the Netherlands so I guess I know a thing or two. Wouldn't consider myself an expert though...

The distressor has no threshold dial but works with "modes" and simply uses the input dial to fine adjust the compression threshold as far as I can figure this thing out.

Flo this is what the manual says:

Bass
4:1, 6:1 turn attack on 5, release 4. The distortion audio modes sound great on bass, but caution should
be observed if you are going to tape. You cannot un-distort. If you have a very "clacky" bass player,
sometimes the band emphasis in the detector just flattens that stuff out. Use fast attack and release times
to keep "clacks" from pumping. Also, try "Opto" mode.

And this is what some famous producers said in an interview about the distressor on bass:

Distortion 3 in, 6:1 [ratio], and 4 and 4 on the attack and release.” (The Distressor's attack and release control-knob settings are not marked in milliseconds or seconds, because the time-constants ranges vary with the unit's different presets.)
 
@Stroud, I just looked up the unit on the Empirical Labs website. It looks cool. It seems to be similair to the Urei 1176 in functionality.

Settings are indeed hard to suggest, as you've just pointed out in your post. The reason I asked for the threshold setting is that 6:1 with a high threshold doesn't result in a very compressed sound. If you lower the threshold drastically, the result might be more compressed than you were hoping for.

I would use a lower threshold as well because of the extreme dynamics, compared to other signals.
 
@DiMarco, I had found about how the Distressor works, I was just late with posting my reply. Thanks for telling me, anyway. In my previous post I refer to the Urei 1176. That's a vintage compressor and the Distressor seems to be based on that type of compressor. They require a slightly different approach than modern compressors, as they have no Threshold knob. If the Distressor works the same way as a Urei 1176, the Attack and Release knobs work in a different way as well, compared to modern compressors. When you set the Attack to 1, you get a slow attack. The further you turn it to 7, the faster your attack gets. When you turn the Release from 1 to 7, the Release actually gets slower/longer, if I remember correctly. (These are the settings for an 1176, on the Distressor it's 0-10 instead of 1-7.)

@Florin: 'British mode' on the Distressor, is also a mode on the Urei 1176. It is also referred to as 'All Buttons In mode.' It means you push all Ratio buttons at the same time, so the are all active. The different ratios stack, causing the compressor to become a limiter. You really don't want to do that to your bass sound. The best use I've heard for that mode is to crush the sound of Room mics for drums. Blend that with a normal drum mix and it sounds big, fat and agressive in no time! ;-) It's very useful in the studio.
 
I have a Behringer Composer 19" two channel unit which is surprisingly good for a Behringer unit but am using that on vocals and drums mainly. For bass I always rely on my compressore which utilizes a tube to do the compression (not an opto with a tube somewhere in its circuit to give it that tube sound, this actually is a genuine tube compressor).



I really dig that little unit as it compresses while not audibly flattening my tone unless I dial in really stupid settings. Shame it uses a 12v adapter so I always gotta drag its own power supply along.
 
Maybe I try brittish mode, and use it as a parallel compression, mixing it with the natural bass sound :)
Thanks for all the advices, I will try everything you said when I will have it in my hands.
About the threshold, normally I used it pretty high, so the bass was compressed onoy on very loud notes. That's because I've never had a compressor to keep a good sound while compressing. The distressor on the other hand is a different beast, so maybe I will keep the bass compressed on every note, so lower the thresold...
 
Bear in mind with this unit that when you turn up the input the threshold actually decreases (well...the threshold is actually fixed, but you boost the input signal. It all works out the same). The threshold and effective ratio are all controlled on the same input control.
 
@Florin, experimenting with this kind of stuff is always a good thing. I'm curious what 'British Mode' will do with a bass guitar. By the way, what do you mean by 'keeping a good sound while compressing'? Do you mean a 'clean' compressed sound? If the British Mode on the Distressor sounds anything like the same setting I heard using a Urei 1176, it'll sound anything but clean. ;-) Also, if you only compress the loudest notes, you will need a high ratio. That way the loudest notes will be very compressed, which can result in a bit of distortion. I sometimes prefer lowering the threshold, or in this case, increasing input gain on the Distressor, combined with a lower ratio. Some of the notes that are lower in volume might start to get compressed a little bit. However, when you start playing louder, you'll get a more gradual compression. This way, you might get a cleaner sound and the loud notes won't sound way more compressed/distorted than the notes played on lower volume.
 
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