Advice Needed

[kimgee]

I recently purchased, and just received this bass from a Reverb seller:

Warwick Warwick Corvette $$ Limited 2009. 4 STRINGS. Bass guitar. 2009

The price seemed very good to me, but as it turns out, it is not in excellent condition by any means. Aside from the fact that it was absolutely filthy, there are numerous dents above and below the pickups from apparent finger and thumb action. The pickups have a good bit of wear on them from the strings hitting them, and worse still, the frets are noticeably scalloped from lots of playing. Also, when I took off the strings to attempt to clean off all the grime, the entire nut fell out, including the base. Is that supposed to happen with JAN 2's? I know the slotted part will come off when the retaining clips are missing, and they are, but the whole assembly fell out. It plays and sounds ok, but I am afraid it will need a complete fret job not too far down the road. Anyone know a ballpark cost of a fretjob using Warwick bell brass frets and the cost of a JAN 3? In this condition would it still be worth the $1,025,00 USD I paid? Am I being too picky considering the price? I am pretty anal when it comes to the condition of my guitars I know, being a gearhead, as I definitely am. I appreciate any advice I can get on this one guys.

oh, and ignore the seller's description, it is for some other bass. He seems like a nice guy, but kinda clueless. I checked the serial number before I bought it and it is accurate with this info from the Warwick site:
Serial number:
M152519 09
Article number:
0484380000BZAMAOWW
produced:
2009-12-03
Description:
CO Corvette $$, 4-string
Natural Oil finish
Swamp Ash / Mahogany top body
Ovangkol neck
Black hardware

 

[Hardy]

Oh my bad!

The price was excellent, now it´s only o.k., still not too high. The problem here is, that such basses are not made to be tortured workhorses. Otoh I could live with some marks as long as it´s no damage. Let it be refretted and polished, that will help a lot. No idea what this will cost in your area, but that´s not a big deal.

I once bought a Star Bass in such a condition. Only the frets where still in better condition. After an intensive cleaning the overall look and impression was fine. When I later sold it the buyer was happy. Another bass with such marks is my Infy fretless high polish. Someone in the past played it with a pick. Lots of scratches and dents at the front pu. Perfectly cleaned it shines bright enough to divert attention from these marks.

It´s one of the reasons why I calmed down with buying and selling gear. Too many problems in the past with such issues. Even when I picked them up I sometimes realized the flaws months after buying.

 

[Gnermo]

Looks like the bass was never properly waxed, leading to some oil/sweat stains near the knobs and pickups.
It happens to quite a lot of Warwicks, and it's only a cosmetic thing.

The JAN should be an easy replacement.

 

[golem]

`


Maybe the time/opportunity to go fretless ?

Everything else is minor, assuming the truss
rod and electronics are good. BTW, are you
certain it needs a full refret job, meaning it's
beyond simply leveling and dressing them ?

 

[kimgee]

I appreciate everyone's responses. I have had time now to take some photos. Keep in mind this is after over and hour of cleaning.

 

[Hardy]

Not too bad imo. Take the pus out to get the dust away from the space between pus and body. Now how to get those grey marks away. Did you use wax already?

 

[kimgee]

Not too bad imo. Take the pus out to get the dust away from the space between pus and body. Now how to get those grey marks away. Did you use wax already?

I cleaned it a bunch with the Warwick finisher. It looked much worse when I got it. The main defect to me is the condition of the fret wires. They look pretty sad. And the real issue, as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that the guy claimed it was in excellent condition. From the original pictures in the auction, and the low price, I did not expect it to be anything like pristine. But this is much worse than I expected. For the price, this is not a screw job, but I was expecting a really good deal. And this ain't it. As you probably know, I did not need this bass by any means. I bought it because I thought it would be a great deal. There is nothing these days that I can invest in and get any kind of return for my investment. A high return on a certificate of deposit these days is 1%, which is absolute crap when inflation is running around at least 7-8%. So, I have been investing in high quality rare wood products......as in bass guitars. This was not a good investment from my perspective, and I really do not like being misled. Plus now I have $1000 USD tied up in this poor investment that I could have used to get a screaming deal, as I originally intended. I have contacted Reverb and the seller, and if I don't get either a significant partial refund, the seller will be giving me a complete refund and he will get it back. I could change my mind though. It pains me to send this once fine instrument back to a tool who mistreated it so badly. I know that I have a vastly different perspective on my guitars than the majority of you guys. But as a perfectionist gear freak nearing retirement age, that does not surprise me.

 

[Hoggles]

This would be a great candidate for a complete sanding/detailing/refinish job. Fun little weekend project. Could easily do a new fret job yourself, they are definitely toast....though it sounds like you've already decided to return it. Shame it was a little beat up. And holy balls Kim....this purchase was after the LTD you just bought? You're a bass buying machine.

 

[boston asphalt2]

I wouldn't be buying a Warwick bass if I was considering buying something as an investment of any kind, to be honest.

 

[Charmand G]

Warwick Rock Bass Corvette $$

On the other hand...isn`t the price for this one a bit steep? That`s what a new one costs here.

 

[kimgee]

I wouldn't be buying a Warwick bass if I was considering buying something as an investment of any kind, to be honest.

Interesting comment. Why would you not buy a Warwick bass as an investment?

 

[kimgee]

This would be a great candidate for a complete sanding/detailing/refinish job. Fun little weekend project. Could easily do a new fret job yourself, they are definitely toast....though it sounds like you've already decided to return it. Shame it was a little beat up. And holy balls Kim....this purchase was after the LTD you just bought? You're a bass buying machine.

I wanted a nice Warwick to practice with on a daily basis that I didn't need to worry about scratching or dinging in some way. This one definitely would fill that spot, but like I said before, I wanted a killer deal and this really is not any kind of a good deal. I don't think I am any more of a klutz than the average person, but shit happens. I bought a Godin A4 Ultra a while back to explore the whole synth thing, along with the fact that it was a killer deal - I grabbed a brand new 4 string version for $722.00 USD! Anyway, within a week I was holding the bass up higher than I usually do to access the output jacks (it has 3) and stuck the headstock into a rotating ceiling fan. Fortunately the tip hit the flat side of one of the blades and I pulled it back down quick enough to prevent another blade strike, so the damage is almost unnoticeable. If that had been my LTD I would have been very, very unhappy.

 

[kimgee]

Warwick Rock Bass Corvette $$

On the other hand...isn`t the price for this one a bit steep? That`s what a new one costs here.

That is an absurdly high price. They will be lucky to get half that.

 

[avionix543]

Interesting comment. Why would you not buy a Warwick bass as an investment?

I'll chime in on this one as I also kinda/sorta think of some - SOME - of my Warwicks as investment pieces. Basically, we both know CD rates blow baboon balls right now and that's not likely to change. You lose value over time due to the spread between pathetic low interest paid vs overall inflation rate. Ok, so that's pretty straight up simple. With the basses, Warwicks in particular, you're essentially hoping (i.e. gambling) that the rate of disinflation measured in USD on your bass is less than the rate of overall USD inflation in the economy as a whole, thus you are shooting for a better spread than the CD vs Inflation racket (hopefully a positive spread instead of less negative, as it were), along with relative stability in the employment numbers so that the used Warwick market inventory doesn't spike after the next massive round of govt sponsored economic fuckery and layoffs. With me so far? *Getting into overseas sales/purchases of used basses and trying to time or trick the currency swaps is a WHOLE different can of worms.*

It's not at all easy to spot which specific bass out of which specific model line, from what year, in what condition, etc is going to be a winner. Seems in this case like you picked the entry point correctly as far as price but got screwed on the quality of this particular bass. It happens. Now you have to either book a loss and dump it or put more money in it to establish its fair value in the range of what you expected, then maybe break even or at least lose less. This is the exact problem with trying to buy "investment grade" used Warwicks online. I'll buy beaters that may or may not cost me a couple hundred extra to fix and that I may or may not get all of my money out of later, but I only buy keepers in person and usually after multiple visits to remove the oohh-ahh effect of finding a Grail in some podunk music store for what looks like a smokin deal. I also occasionally gamble on very rare items and roll the dice. Exactly like what you just did. Win some, lose some.

As for this bass... I'd take it to a highly competent luthier and have the frets leveled, recrowned, and dressed at a much lower but at least even height, then play it for awhile. Whoever had this bass since new was a fucking tard and ruined the frets, plus nearly ruined the body and obviously never had the first whiff of a clue as to how one is supposed to care for such things. Please do NOT return it to them as they are categorically unqualified to own such an instrument ever again. A composite JAN3 is not expensive and is a quick fix+upgrayyedd (two D's for a double dose!). Strip the hardware off it and thoroughly clean it (pm me for tips and tricks), replace the broken nut for a good new one, get the frets leveled properly, and play it. Low-fretted Warwick necks are actually really good to play on - I had a '94 Fortress that had the frets worn down and re-done a few times and it was almost fretless, but still had all the zing and articulation but with less effort and stupid low action was possible. So you got taken by a fucktard on this one from a financial perspective... doesn't mean it's not still going to be a great bass for you and you may eventually break even on it anyway after the repairs are done. Document everything with pix and the peeps here might be among the most likely purchasers since we'll all know what went into it and why. Just fyi, sir.
~M~

 

[kimgee]

I'll chime in on this one as I also kinda/sorta think of some - SOME - of my Warwicks as investment pieces. Basically, we both know CD rates blow baboon balls right now and that's not likely to change. You lose value over time due to the spread between pathetic low interest paid vs overall inflation rate. Ok, so that's pretty straight up simple. With the basses, Warwicks in particular, you're essentially hoping (i.e. gambling) that the rate of disinflation measured in USD on your bass is less than the rate of overall USD inflation in the economy as a whole, thus you are shooting for a better spread than the CD vs Inflation racket (hopefully a positive spread instead of less negative, as it were), along with relative stability in the employment numbers so that the used Warwick market inventory doesn't spike after the next massive round of govt sponsored economic fuckery and layoffs. With me so far? *Getting into overseas sales/purchases of used basses and trying to time or trick the currency swaps is a WHOLE different can of worms.*

It's not at all easy to spot which specific bass out of which specific model line, from what year, in what condition, etc is going to be a winner. Seems in this case like you picked the entry point correctly as far as price but got screwed on the quality of this particular bass. It happens. Now you have to either book a loss and dump it or put more money in it to establish its fair value in the range of what you expected, then maybe break even or at least lose less. This is the exact problem with trying to buy "investment grade" used Warwicks online. I'll buy beaters that may or may not cost me a couple hundred extra to fix and that I may or may not get all of my money out of later, but I only buy keepers in person and usually after multiple visits to remove the oohh-ahh effect of finding a Grail in some podunk music store for what looks like a smokin deal. I also occasionally gamble on very rare items and roll the dice. Exactly like what you just did. Win some, lose some.

As for this bass... I'd take it to a highly competent luthier and have the frets leveled, recrowned, and dressed at a much lower but at least even height, then play it for awhile. Whoever had this bass since new was a fucking tard and ruined the frets, plus nearly ruined the body and obviously never had the first whiff of a clue as to how one is supposed to care for such things. Please do NOT return it to them as they are categorically unqualified to own such an instrument ever again. A composite JAN3 is not expensive and is a quick fix+upgrayyedd (two D's for a double dose!). Strip the hardware off it and thoroughly clean it (pm me for tips and tricks), replace the broken nut for a good new one, get the frets leveled properly, and play it. Low-fretted Warwick necks are actually really good to play on - I had a '94 Fortress that had the frets worn down and re-done a few times and it was almost fretless, but still had all the zing and articulation but with less effort and stupid low action was possible. So you got taken by a fucktard on this one from a financial perspective... doesn't mean it's not still going to be a great bass for you and you may eventually break even on it anyway after the repairs are done. Document everything with pix and the peeps here might be among the most likely purchasers since we'll all know what went into it and why. Just fyi, sir.
~M~

Actually, I am pretty well protected from this type of seller stupidity/dishonesty. I bought on Reverb, and their policy for "not as described items" is the seller gives a full refund, including shipping, and pays for the return shipping as well. If Reverb fails to back me up for some reason, I paid through Reverb Checkout with a credit card. One call to the issuing bank and all I need to do is provide a shipper's proof of return delivery and they will reverse the charge. So, worst case scenario is, I eat the return shipping. In fact, were I a dirty rat, I could put the appropriate weight of scrap lumber in a box, ship it back to the seller, and the seller gets screwed big time. The bank doesn't care one bit about any party involved except themselves. They can reach into Reverb's merchant account and take the money. They can't do that to me. I used to have a merchant credit card account and learned that inconvenient truth the hard way. So, the seller acts reasonably, or he wishes he had in the end.

 

[avionix543]

Could still end up being a really good bass for ya after a couple hundred bucks in parts and restoration. Other than the obvious fret and filthiness issues, does it sound good enough that you'd be happy with it if it weren't in such condition?

 

[Hoggles]

Could still end up being a really good bass for ya after a couple hundred bucks in parts and restoration. Other than the obvious fret and filthiness issues, does it sound good enough that you'd be happy with it if it weren't in such condition?

Yeah, I'm with ya. I think it would make a perfect restoration candidate. Bust out the sandpaper and have some fun. Even after the money spent for a fret job...it would still be a good deal for a 20 run limited Vette.

When I got my '04 Thumb, I realized it had some sort of non wax finish applied by the previous owner, that gave it a weird color and just looked and felt bad. I also noticed the back had a bit of sweat damage, with it being noticeably rough to the touch.

The next day I took sandpaper to it and did a full restore. Soooo happy I did. Felt like I had a new Thumb...and that made the purchase feel that much better

 

[kimgee]

Could still end up being a really good bass for ya after a couple hundred bucks in parts and restoration. Other than the obvious fret and filthiness issues, does it sound good enough that you'd be happy with it if it weren't in such condition?

It is certainly better, even in it's current shape, than my meager skill require. However, that is a secondary consideration at this point. My music teacher recently commented that I had become a Warwick snob, and he is correct. The real issue here, for me, is what I received in exchange for my not yet earned money. I have gotten prices on a new nut and set of fret wires from Jon at the Nashville Showroom and an approximate price from a local luthier to perform the fretjob. The total would come to between $300 - $400 USD. When taking into account the usage I can get from the bass before these costs MUST be incurred, and the true condition of the bass, I am thinking I will want a partial refund in the neighborhood of $300 USD. If the seller refuses to negotiate to a position near mine, he will get the bass back and take the loss on shipping. Being a wonderful human being, I won't bill him for the cleaning job.

As for the bass's tone, that brings up an interesting point. I have theorized that the piercing "growl" Warwicks are known for is the result of the wenge necks. This episode has reinforced that theory. This is the first Warwick I have played that does not have a wenge neck - it is ovangkol. I have 2 other Corvette $$, and they both have wenge necks. While they both have the "growl", I would say this ovangkol necked unit has more of a "snarl". The tone is definitely not as piercing, to my ears anyway. If I end up keeping the bass, and I can find the time, I will do a direct comparison of this bass with it's ovangkol neck and mahogany top, and my other $$ 4 string, which has a wenge neck and wenge top.

 

[avionix543]

I find myself preferring the feel of ovangkol necks over the wenge ones in general, though I haven't owned a recent wenge-necked bass so a real world comparison has yet to be made. As far as the sound goes, I'm really just used to ovangkol's tonal range/response and becoming somewhat more impressed by maple due to the Hot Rods and Star Bass (shockingly, never thought that would happen since maple is so common and boring, but here I am. The stuff just sounds good sometimes). The basses I play most and most enjoy the sound of have copious amounts of ovangkol in them.

In other news, I'd try to restore it. But that's just me

 

[Hoggles]

It is certainly better, even in it's current shape, than my meager skill require. However, that is a secondary consideration at this point. My music teacher recently commented that I had become a Warwick snob, and he is correct. The real issue here, for me, is what I received in exchange for my not yet earned money. I have gotten prices on a new nut and set of fret wires from Jon at the Nashville Showroom and an approximate price from a local luthier to perform the fretjob. The total would come to between $300 - $400 USD. When taking into account the usage I can get from the bass before these costs MUST be incurred, and the true condition of the bass, I am thinking I will want a partial refund in the neighborhood of $300 USD. If the seller refuses to negotiate to a position near mine, he will get the bass back and take the loss on shipping. Being a wonderful human being, I won't bill him for the cleaning job.

As for the bass's tone, that brings up an interesting point. I have theorized that the piercing "growl" Warwicks are known for is the result of the wenge necks. This episode has reinforced that theory. This is the first Warwick I have played that does not have a wenge neck - it is ovangkol. I have 2 other Corvette $$, and they both have wenge necks. While they both have the "growl", I would say this ovangkol necked unit has more of a "snarl". The tone is definitely not as piercing, to my ears anyway. If I end up keeping the bass, and I can find the time, I will do a direct comparison of this bass with it's ovangkol neck and mahogany top, and my other $$ 4 string, which has a wenge neck and wenge top.

I understand being upset on the condition...but no need to get spiteful Dani's Gear Outlet, is obviously just a guy named Dani who works down at the pub $300 off the asking price (in my humble opinion) is asking a bit much. The seller should decline that. $700 for that bass, even in the condition it's in, is way low. Silly low. I could see maybe a $100 refund. Maybe. Looking at those reverb pics....despite it saying "excellent" in the description...you can clearly see the pitting and distress above the pups. Granted he didn't talk about the frets or nut...but it's possible he didn't know any better....unless you asked about those things. If you don't wanna do a restore yourself and have someone do some fret work...I'd just get a refund and have Reverb help if necessary. I can't go full tilt "stick it to the evil bastard" mode with ya on this one Kim Sometimes guitars simply need to be returned with no fuss. But hey...to each their own. Good luck in any event!

I kinda feel like I have to say good luck to the seller as well

Lastly...I noticed you said the JAN2 fell out. That looks to be a JAN3. And the posts don't look broken in your pics...so just clean the area with a razor blade and use a drop of super glue to secure the base. That's how Warwick does it. Looks like the nut might be fine. There's $80 saved right there