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You say its a fullrange amp, now make it!

Discussion in 'Bass Amps & Cabinets' started by Andrew O, Jan 26, 2009.

  1. Andrew O

    Andrew O

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    I've dreamed of owning a hellborg like many of you, but what bugs the crap out of me is they advertise it as a "full range amp" while it only responds (at the lowest frequency) at 50 hz. Why not make something that responds at 20 Hz?! I've looked and the lowest I can find is 35 Hz (Dr. Bass 115). If it's not possible, then inform me :D. I would just love to have the option of actually buying a full range amp, and hear my brown notes! :)
     
  2. Michael J

    Michael J

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    The BC 215 ranges from 40 Hz to 20 KHz- full range by most peoples standards I think. Remember too, Hellborg no longer uses five stringed basses.

    The Preamps range is 20 Hz to 20 Khz

    and the Poweramps is 25 Hz to 16 Khz.

    So the amp is fullrange.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2009
  3. ThirdthumB

    ThirdthumB

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    Don't be fooled by these numbers. If it says 50 Hz and up, it doesn't mean it doesn't respond to 40 or 30 Hz.
     
  4. JanVanHove

    JanVanHove Artist

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    Andrew, the only way to get a cab that responds properly to ultra-lows is to get a dedicated subwoofer, something like the Bag End Infra system, and a very very powerful amp to drive it... The lower you go in frequency, the more power you need in order to get the same sound perception.

    Now, one thing to be aware of, is that even if an E-string's open note is supposedly at 40Hz, it is only the fundamental tone that produces it. The note that you hear when you pluck the string is a composite of all harmonics and overtones, and has a much louder harmonic content than the fundamental tone, owing in part to the fact that the E string on our bass guitars is much too short to reproduce properly the fundamental tone... (just think of a pipe organ's bass register, the big 32' pipes at the front?)

    So, what it comes down to is that you don't need the sub-register to properly reproduce a tone made with a bass guitar. If you just want to more some air, you need a powerful subwoofer and an associated power amp...

    So a big heavy rig...


    [​IMG]
     
  5. Florin

    Florin Warwick Forum Administrator Staff Member

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    Andrew, I think a lot of players are making a confusion. Between the frequency as the lowest note they can play, and the frequency as the sound.
    So having 40 - 20 Khz it doesn't mean you will not hear 30 Hz frequencies, and it doesn't mean you cannot play a F# tuned bass.
    Generally speaking too low frequencies are to be avoided if you want a good tight bass sound. Below 40 it is nothing but mud.
     
  6. JanVanHove

    JanVanHove Artist

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    Yes, unless you have a tight cab for ultra-low, like a horn sub...
    Bi-amping is the way to go if you want to get tight highs and shake the rafters with the subs...
     
  7. fatgoogle

    fatgoogle

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    Meh, its not like we can really hear really low volumes, some cabs yes you can notice that they cant produce, but on most of them, even if they cant techniquely go down that low, they till produce good note.
     
  8. Alchemist

    Alchemist Warwick Endorser

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    IMHO, if you can tweak the amp to make the sound you have in your head using your own bassguitar, you shouldn't drown yourself in all the technicalities... Less is often more. :)
     
  9. Florin

    Florin Warwick Forum Administrator Staff Member

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    Wise words, Alchemist.

    And to reply to the topic, I think I've never seen a rig with a tighter low end than the Hellborg + Big Cab.
    You realize some things only in a band context.
    Jan, 30 Hz is mud no matter what cabinet you are using :) If you play in a band with bass, drum and harmonica, you might like it, but usually in a normal band it kills the sound. Because you need to be too loud to hear yourself.
    It's easy. The "bass" you think you hear in a band are actually low mids. As Alchemist said' less is more, and in this case, less 30 Hz is very often ... more bass :)
     
  10. JanVanHove

    JanVanHove Artist

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    Florin, I understand perfectly your point, and I agree, you don't need the low end to get a good sound, even a fat round tone doesn't need the sub, but if you absolutely need it for some reason, the way to go is a dedicated sub and a powerful amp to drive it because, as you say, you need to be very loud to be heard...

    I guess we agree, in a way... :)
     
  11. Andrew O

    Andrew O

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    Thanks for informing me! I just like using my whammy+downtuned basses and such. My dream setup would be a 118, 115, 112 (all tweeter less) and then 112,410, 4x8 (with tweeters). now THAT would be full range amplification :D
     
  12. fatgoogle

    fatgoogle

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    What HZ would you drive into each stacl tough.
     
  13. The Kool-Aid Kid

    The Kool-Aid Kid

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    How do you even power a big stack like that? Can you use one of those big several thousand watt PA power amps?
     
  14. golem

    golem Philosopher King

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    +1.


    But reality-based forum threads would just
    be so short and boring, wouldn't they ......



     
  15. Andrew O

    Andrew O

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    Yeah, you would definitely need a couple power amps. It's not very practical for what i'm doing now, it would just be really cool!
     
  16. golem

    golem Philosopher King

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    Dream ?


    More likely a nightmare of clashing phasing,
    delays, harmonics, transients, wavelengths,
    resonances, and mudd.


    Actually I'm using more jargon than I really
    understand, but I speak the truth anywayz.​

     
  17. Callum

    Callum

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    I always took full range to cover full spectrum of hearing ie up to 20khz. I always want want at least 12khz + from a cab. Bass speakers drop off at around 3.5khz luckily most tweeters get the higher range.

    I think the only truly 'full range' stuff that i have seen is from phil jones bass, my flight case has a 25hz to 20khz frequency response, most of their gear does that iirc. They are also very tight sounding.

    Now although in a practical sense we ain't gonna hear sub bass, but we will feel it. Now take dubstep (basically really dark dub with an emphasis on the 3rd beat instead of the second) that mostly is just speakers shaking you in time, most it just oscillations of ultra low frequencies.

    I've been messing with synth bass tones and playing live DnB and dance music, so getting a thumping bass tone is really needed, deep bass + kick drum gives a really good thumping sound which is needed in more clubbing esq music imo. Also these tend to have more space to play with, and consist generally of drums bass, and a synth lead maybe some vocals.
     
  18. JanVanHove

    JanVanHove Artist

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    +100 :p
    Wow golem, one of your best posts ever! :)
    The implications are simply staggering!
     
  19. Florin

    Florin Warwick Forum Administrator Staff Member

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    I guess you are right.
    However, I never felt like using a subwoofer ever. I used to have a sound with deep lows, but even then I was very happy with the regular - full range - rigs I had. But this is me :)
    And I may sound like a broken vinyl, but 30 Hz freq are to be avoided almost always... If you have 30 Hz on your amp's EQ, it is there for you to cut it :)
    Even in some basic instruction manuals like Trace Eliot's they specify that.
    30 Hz is not something you actually hear very well, it is something that move the hair on your legs.
    So why to have a rig to boost something you actually need to cut?

    Hihihi :)
     
  20. Grgzilla

    Grgzilla

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    One reason.
    It makes up for the lack of length down stairs.;)
     
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