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Playing Live…. Better Bass Vs Better Cab

Discussion in 'Band Management' started by RIP, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. RIP

    RIP California U.S.A. Good Vibe Sponsor

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    I came across this video and found it to be interesting and from what I’ve experienced mostly true. Although I have played at some smaller venues with no FOH and thought the acoustics were great and the Amp / Cab combination was clearly heard in the mix.

    What are your thoughts on this?



    Edit: sorry, I cant get the video to load properly, so just click the link
    Edit2: Your friendly admin is friendly. Cheers, Marco
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
  2. DiMarco

    DiMarco nutcase Good Vibe Sponsor

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    I have given this a LOT of thought over the years and decided to still bring heavy tube amps on stage.
    True, I usually play smaller rooms where only the vocals and sometimes drums are reinforced by foh... but when I play larger venues like the occasional festival I am usually reinforced and want my tone to shine through.

    "BUT I use overdrives and fuzzes, those would sound a lot different and probably bad through foh"

    So how do I solve this problem? Make the bass stack sound like foh!

    If I want oldskool bass tone, I create this through the controls on my bass and effectboard. The amp + cabinet sound pretty neutral. I only change my on-amp EQ to compensate room acoustics on smaller venues.
    My speaker cabinet is flat frequency response, full range. If the foh speakers are as good as mine (I doubt this) my sound will be as good for the audience as it is for me.
    My on stage tone with the tube amp is gritty and "big", which is nice at stage volume. But the MASSIVE sound of a foh system does not need this, it already sounds big because it actually IS big.

    If the DI signal really is a problem, I always pack my secret bass cab mic (for blending with the DI signal), which is an AudioTechnica ATM250, a very neutral kickdrum mic with NO MID SCOOP, just a little bump on the 80hz and 3.5khz freqs. It is AWESOME. I really do not like to use the old SM57 (that most sound engineers like to drag in) on bass cabs, it sounds boxy around 250hz and is just shite for bass.

    Check out the ATM250...

    atm250_freq.jpg audio-technica-atm250-clip.jpg
     
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  3. RIP

    RIP California U.S.A. Good Vibe Sponsor

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    Thank you my friend
     
  4. zomnius

    zomnius Good Vibe Sponsor

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    dunno, my experience how little, but I think buying a good bass will help you sound better. it is all in your fingers in the end. Though Amps sound very different too. but you can compensate or boost a lot with you paying position and finger style.
     
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  5. DiMarco

    DiMarco nutcase Good Vibe Sponsor

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    I want my own on stage tone to be inspiring so I like to use amps that make me sound awesome.
     
  6. RIP

    RIP California U.S.A. Good Vibe Sponsor

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    Yeah that's the thing about what this guy is saying. He makes it sound like just buy whatever because in the end its all going to sound like mud anyway.

    Now maybe when your doing big gigs and a FOH is involved, but small to medium venues I disagree with what he's saying.

    And even for the larger venues I think the amp on stage is going to be heard and make a difference say up until 100ft out
     
  7. Florin

    Florin Warwick Forum Administrator Staff Member

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    SInce I played in my own bands, not as session bassist, I kinda wanted to have my own sound with me, so right now for example it comes from Hellborg Pre, and Darkglas Electronics B7k.
    I also like to use the compression, knowing what it does, to adapt my technique, so I used to have a distressor too in my rig.

    Also, the most important thing on stage is indeed the DI out, but you kinda never find decent ones on stage, and Hellborg's DI out is king - Avalon U5 quality - so they say. This is important, as it moves your sound somehow unaltered, and stronger to FOH, the difference to other preamps DI's is overwhelming.

    I don't care too much or almost at all about the ampliffication stage, as this is not important at all, as the guy says, and to be honest, the better the sound, more complains I have from the band. Bass, can be a bit too much on most stages, and most of the large and small stages are flooded with bass frequencies anyway, from the PA, so I get "that look" even when my rig is turned off :)

    So for short, in my experience:
    - DI out - must be stelar
    - Preamp/ Overdrive/ FX - that's my sound I feed to DI, and send my sound to FOH, being careful not to make EQ mistakes (ie - boosting da lows) The FOH guy usually has an easier job to do.
    - Power amp/ cabinets - I don't care, whatever I find there.

    Love ya!
    Flo
    PS - oh, and that is for all kind of stages!
    My current rig is Darkglass B7k, Hellborg pre, and a LWA1000 for stage monitoring. Now that's important, because I have separate controls for stage sound. I send Hellborg with a cleanish sound to FOH, and set my LWA (who has a decent compression too) to feel OK on stage.
     
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  8. DiMarco

    DiMarco nutcase Good Vibe Sponsor

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    Dat PS. :D you DO care. Lol.
     
  9. Florin

    Florin Warwick Forum Administrator Staff Member

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    He Hehehe Hehehehehehehehe :)
    I found LWA1000 to be awesome for stage. Clean, and powerful, and tight. It kicked ass of some amps that were much higher ranked for backlines.
     
  10. Henrythe8

    Henrythe8 Dolphin Hoarder

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    I do think that the SPEAKERS you use will make a difference if there is no PA/FOH.
    I noticed that with the 8x8, I can keep a clear sound, that I can't achieve with the 210 (not loud enough anyway) and the 4x10.
    I agree, the amp itself will make little to non difference, except for the DI quality of it. But IMHO, speakers ARE important.
     
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  11. DiMarco

    DiMarco nutcase Good Vibe Sponsor

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    You think this way until you've been converted to the holy church of VALVE AMPS.
     
  12. Henrythe8

    Henrythe8 Dolphin Hoarder

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    Yeah, maybe. But with the same amp and two different cabs, I KNOW cabs matter. The rank is yet to be defined. :)
    I'd love to play the full tube amp, but it's heavy. And Expensive.
    Too much like me :)
     
  13. shaftbass

    shaftbass

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    Depends on what you start with.
     
  14. Hardy

    Hardy Supporting Member Good Vibe Sponsor

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    Played without my own rig last Saturday. That will NEVER happen again! Stage amp was off, my bass only amped through the PA. First song, bassDRUM started to buzz, the guy on the mixer pulled the switch down to... zero. We played the first song without any bass guitar. Too bad it is based on a rolling bass line. ANY sound from any amp or cab is better than NO sound!
     
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  15. Florin

    Florin Warwick Forum Administrator Staff Member

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    Ah damn!
     
  16. Henrythe8

    Henrythe8 Dolphin Hoarder

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    Bad Soundguy. Mean soundguy.
     
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  17. PaulS

    PaulS Supporting Member Good Vibe Sponsor

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    Wow that's some serious bullshit right there!
     
  18. Nightmaresandconclusions

    Nightmaresandconclusions

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    you only sound as good as your weakest link.
     
  19. Nightmaresandconclusions

    Nightmaresandconclusions

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    Bass mic options also plays a part as well as placement. This is an experiment I did the other day and the winner is.....

    20171007_202828.jpg


    20171102_183513.jpg
     
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