Neck Dive

[Charmand G]

Many neckdives could be prevented with a relocated strap-pin under the upper horn, instead of at at the end of it.

Just cutting in with 2$, not knowing if anyone has mentioned this...

 

[Patrik]

Many neckdives could be prevented with a relocated strap-pin under the upper horn, instead of at at the end of it.

Just cutting in with 2$, not knowing if anyone has mentioned this...

Why not go all the way and put the strap-pin on the headstock :?: :?:

 

[Lex]

Am I the only human who thinks neck dive issues are for babies? How much upward pressure does it take to keep the neck at the angle you like? I'm guessing insignificantly more than it takes to hold your forearm horizontal.

And no concerns with actually having to prevent the neck moving backwards when you fret it? My God, you actually have to support the neck? Violin players support the whole weight of their instrument in their hand (and before anyone pisses and moans-violins don't have friggin straps).

Go buy a Steinberger.

I'm with you mate. Neck dive, to me, is a moot topic.

 

[golem]

Many neckdives could be prevented with a relocated strap-pin
under the upper horn, instead of at at the end of it.

Just cutting in with 2$, not knowing if anyone has mentioned this...

Why not go all the way and put the strap-pin on the headstock :?: :?:

Whatchagot here is two opposing concepts. I'm with Patrick,
in concept anywayz. That pin needs to be closer to the head,
not further back down the horn toward the bridge.

But a pin on the headstock is awful. It has at least two major
problems. The lesser is that is causes the neck relief to keep
changing if you're somewhat an active player, which is really
the only "right" way to be a bass player .....

The larger problem is that the strap will be approximating a
straight line. Lift the neck to playing height and the strap will
slide along your shoulder, shifting the bass a bit to the right,
at which point the body will dive down to your knees, and the
headstock-with-strap will try to both strangle you and klonk
you in the teeth. It's just not fun.

-------------------------------------------------------------


The lesser problem, that of wandering action height, may be
dismissable for some players, especially if they play a fairly
high action anyway, and a stout neck, like a 5- or 6-string.

The larger problem can be solved by breaking the 'straight'
line of the strap. This CAN be done. A third piece of strap is
involved, fairly short. I've found that heavy neoprene tubing
works well, cuz it's grippy, easily tied like rope, and is only
slightly eleastic if a heavy guage is used. This piece is tied
at one end to the top horn pin, and its other end to the main
strap, appproximately over the 9th fret.

That short "rubber rope" pulls the main strap just enuf to
put a 'shoulder-break' into the "straight" line, and make the
bass ride where it's spozed to. I did this, it worked great on
a serious neck diver, a metal necked Kramer with a rather
stumpy top horn. But a Kramer neck is immune to the pull
of the strap on the headstock. The action height [actually,
the neck relief] on a Kramer is unyielding. It's factory set.
It's a cast metal neck with no truss rod. This special quality
became obvious when I tried the same trick on a wooden
necked bass and encountered wandering action height. But
that was mahogany necked acoustic. The bludgeon neck on
a Wick is much stiffer, but less stiff than an aluminum cast
neck. So it's possible the 'Kramer Fix' may work on a Wick.

------------------------------------------------------------------


BTW, the choice of neoprene tubing was not the result of
any great research. It was at hand so I used it, and it then
proved to be just right. Some other material, a boot lace
or whatever, might do just as well. Anywayz, the outfit was
easy to use, not as funny looking as it seems in text ... no
one seemed to notice it. I used it as long as I owned that
particular bass. Of course even with perfect balance 13 lbs
is still a load on your neck and shoulder .... so it's gone.

Also, I never put a strap pin on the headstock. I used the
shaft of the G-string tuning key. Most straps have a large
enuf "key hole" that you can work them over the ears and
down onto the shaft. Or else just R/R the tuner key.

Oh, yeah .... you want the small end of the strap on the
headstock. IOW the strap is backwards to the usual way.

 

[trujo777]

WOW!! that's quite a task :lol:

 

[golem]

Nonsequitorials R Us

....... And no concerns with actually having to prevent
the neck moving backwards when you fret it? My God,
you actually have to support the neck? Violin players
support the whole weight of their instrument in their
hand (and before anyone pisses and moans-violins
don't have friggin straps).

Go buy a Steinberger.

Got several Bergers thanky. And as you point out, it's
handy to have some way to prevent the neck moving
backwards ... which for me and many other players is
the right elbow, or thereabouts. Unfortunately, with a
Berger your right wrist and left thumb hafta take over
for your "lost in space" right elbow.

As to the remark about violins, well I hafta agree. Not
only the whole weight of the fiddle [about 2 sparrows]
but also the weight of the human head thaz parked on
that little black dish at the rear of the fiddle. Therefore
I would never consider sticking a 10 lb bass under my
chinny chin chin. AAMOF, thaz why I don't play piano.

 

[Grgzilla]

Go buy a Steinberger.

Yeah, get a Streamer!

Precisely.

 

[Patrik]

Go buy a Steinberger.

Yeah, get a Streamer!

Precisely.

Streamers have a good balance.... yepp.

 

[MrWalker]

The discussion of thumb bass and neck dive surely has been beaten to death. Nevertheless, I have in fact managed to make my '90 Thumb boat anchor become playable. And the good thing is that it does not imply heavy modification of the bass.
The bass is very heavy. It's north of 6.4kg, and by far the heaviest instrument I've owned. And with the short upper horn, the headstock wants to sit low. If unaltered, the bass wants to sit almost horizontal when on a strap. This does not work particularly well with my playing position.
So I experience neck dive.
The solution was to get a Richter Hydra two shoulder system, and then to place a flush mount Dunlop strap ferrule on the underside of the bass. This is a trick that Kim Stone is using on his basses. By moving the strap button to the lower side of the bass, the center of gravity is alerted allowing the neck to sit higher and more at an angle. The Hydra two shoulder strap alleviates the weight and also stops the strap from digging in.
So it is possible to alter the playing position without destroying the bass.
Cheers,
Jon

 

[kimgee]

I hate neckdive. The way an instrument is held by the player is a very personal thing. If the instrument doesn't sit in a way that the player finds comfortable, to them personally, their playing will suffer. An individual who ignores this fact is demonstrating an amateur's perspective. I have a couple of Thumb basses, but due to the way I hold the instrument, I don't experience neckdive with the Thumbs that I own (both are 4 strings). I can't say that for all the basses I have tried, and I have sold some nice basses because they neckdived.........including a Warwick Star Bass. After reading MrWalker's post, I investigated the Richter Hydra, and low and behold, look at the bass used in their demo video:



Now I may just get that Hydra and give the Star Bass another go. Besides the balance thing, the Hydra looks like it would really alleviate shoulder stress and the related pain it causes.

 

[MrWalker]

I was thinking that even though 6.4kg is a lot for a bass, people play accordions standing up that are way heavier than that. But they use a two-shoulder harness work heavy padding. So I went for a search and found the Hydra.
However, since the Thumb wants to sit horizontal, I also had to add that new strap connection to alleviate that, the Kim Stone strap button. All I need now is to get a longer strap for the lower connection, the one in the photo is a makeshift solution to make it long enough.

But it works. And it will work for any bass. It's better weight distributing than any other two-shoulder solution I've seen. I've tested the Erskine model by GruvGear, and that one doesn't come close. It is a little simpler in use, though.

Hope my experience is of value to others, as well.

 

[kimgee]

These guys have some interesting strap solutions:

Slinger Guitar Straps | Bass Straps | Camera Straps - Los Angeles

We offer the worlds largest selection of ergonomic guitar straps, including the best guitar straps, bass straps, and camera straps. Handmade in Los Angeles, Ca.

slingerstraps.com