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Cites Is A Toothless Tiger Apparently

Discussion in 'Maddrakkett's Caffe' started by Hector, Jul 31, 2019.

  1. Hector

    Hector Moderator Staff Member

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    This is incredible. CITES is, for all intents and purposes, a toothless tiger.

    According to this article, the vast, vast majority (if not all) of illegally logged Rosewood is being used to make furniture for the chinese internal market, not guitar/bass fretboards.

    Ghana 'exports rosewood timber illegally to China'

    To quote the article:

    "Since 2012, over 540,000 tons of rosewood - the equivalent of 23,478 twenty-foot containers or approximately six million trees - were illegally harvested and imported into China from Ghana while bans on harvest and trade have been in place," the group added.

    --

    Rosewood is supposed to be protected by Cites, the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora, but the EIA says this protection is not enough.
     
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  2. Nachobassman

    Nachobassman Bass, Tapas, and Rn´R!

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    So, CITES is like UN... Am I surprised? Not really.
     
  3. Hoggles

    Hoggles Supporting Member Good Vibe Sponsor

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    I'm all for the regulations being even more strict, with more law enforcement involved, including the military protecting trees if need be. Whatever it takes. At this point, there are plenty of basses/guitars to choose from in whatever country you live in. Whatever they have to do, beyond CITES, to protect the trees. Do it.

    I know CITES is bashed by forum members...but all I see is people more concerned about an instrument, than the environment. Sad that selling their bass/guitar has become so difficult. Not what it used to be. Cry me a river.
     
  4. DiMarco

    DiMarco nutcase Good Vibe Sponsor

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    Nothing more then a small inconvenience tbh.
    Selling basses outside the EU was a pain already anyway with taxes and all.
     
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  5. Foal30

    Foal30 Supporting Member

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    China does as China sees fit

    It is frustrating for the common man to feel penalised by legislation that Super-Powers ignore
     
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  6. Hector

    Hector Moderator Staff Member

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    True, there are probably more than enough instruments kicking around the planet to put one in the hands of anyone interested in playing it.

    I too am in favour of stricter controls, but only if those controls actually work on the source of the problem. For all intents and purposes CITES is simply more red tape / a way for governments to make more money through Permits and Certificates. As we can see from the article above, it isn't actually solving the problem. It's more akin to "virtue signalling" by governments than actually doing anything concrete.


    On that note, in the guitar world:

    Did it make Fender/Squier look for other sources of wood? Yes. So there is one positive. I do recall seeing a 100% rosewood Tele a few years ago, for an incredible €12'000 (later lowered to €9'000), so meh...

    Did Gibson? Yes and no, I do have a 2018 Gibson BFG with a Granadillo fretboard, it's awesome. Gibson already had alternatives in their baked maple and richlite, maligned though they both may be, but in 2019 stepped back from using anything but Rosewood (maybe not on all models, but the majority).

    Did PRS? I don't know their entire line, but their cheaper SE versions still use Rosewood.

    Did Framus / Warwick? If I recall they said they stockpiled / have enough "ethically" sourced Rosewood to last 20 years (or similar). So maybe that doesn't apply in the case of Framus / Warwick.

    How many guitars on Thomann's site have a CITES image? Most. So it really hasn't had that big of an impact on what's available on the market right now.


    However, I also think instrument players blow this out of proportion. It's a storm in a teacup for us. At the same time, I have not done the calculation of the total amount of rosewood used to make guitar fretboards (finding the stats is difficult), but I can imagine it is a drop in a shipping container compared to the illegal logging used to make furniture as is mentioned in the article.
     
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  7. DiMarco

    DiMarco nutcase Good Vibe Sponsor

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    There I solved it. A fingerboard can be made of any material. Wood is overrated.
     
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  8. Hector

    Hector Moderator Staff Member

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    There is also this....

     
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