Hoggles
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In this thread I'm going to compare the available pictures and general info, of all the known '85 JD Thumbs. Of course there are many more still around...but these are the only examples I could find with pictures.
Hans-Peter was kind enough to read over the thread and said things looked accurate...but he did note that John Davis was there as a promoter and endorser and did not have a hand in design. HP said the design is completely his own. John Davis was a player/singer based in Nuremberg. HP got in contact with him through a music store called "der Musikladen Nurnberg". He hired him to do shows, promotions and to use the "signature" JD Thumb for all the events. I'm still uncertain as to the exact arrangement between HP & JD... but whatever it was, it must have been a big honor for JD to have his initials on nearly every Thumb that left Pretzfeld for 2 years. Also it was news to me, until Flo pointed out that JD is actually one of the original voices of Milli Vanilli. Crazy! I had forgotten they were also out of Germany.
Keep in mind, this info is only as accurate as the pics I've found, info I've read and staring at every square millimeter of my JD (F 125)...like a mental patient. There are some gaps in the info...and no doubt, the cutoff/start of each revision, is a little bit different....with the end of the first revision being a little easier to pin down. Unfortunately HP doesn't remember all the details from the 80's...so it's up to us to get the history books filled. Kinda funny... HP said "it was a wired time in the 80's"... maybe he meant "weird" ....but I immediately thought of the Aviator glasses he always wore and flashes of Scarface & Miami Vice raced through my mind
_______________________________________________________
There were 3 distinct versions of the JD Thumb in 1985.
Version 1: #001 - 129
Rev 2: #130 - 255
Rev 3: #256 - 283
Version 1: The original.
The upper horn: The first two versions of JD's had the legendary ultra shorthorn. The top of the horn in the first version, only reached to the 19th fret....with the base/saddle of that horn starting at the 23rd fret. The lower horn on these first ones, only reached to fret position 23.5, with the base/saddle starting at about 25.5. One thing to note about these first JD's...is the depth at which the fretboard extends into the body. It's more inline with modern Thumbs, where that top horn saddle starts at about the 23rd fret.
The bridge: The Schaller bridge on the first JD's is more in the middle (toward the neck), than JD's to come. With the bottom edge of the bridge being parallel with the bottom edge of the last control knob.
Electronics: EMG J's were the standard, default pups....with an option for the Seymour Duncan pups w/selector switches. Early Vlad Hansel BEC preamps should have been used for both pup configs.
Woods: Standard was Bubinga body, with Wenge & Bubinga neck. There was a custom option for a Bubinga fretboad. Could have been a few with other body woods. Unconfirmed.
Frets: Nickel silver
Nut: JAN1
Tuners: Schaller. The original ad for the JD states the tuners are slanted, but that original pic shows the tuners are still straight. This is confirmed by JD #3 having straight tuners as well. Sometime between #3 and Pino's old #42, the tuners were finally slanted.
Serial #: The serial number on these JD's is located on the back of the headstock, just below the scallop and just above where the volute would eventually go.
Revision 2:
This is where HP, with input from Jack Bruce (after receiving at least 2 fretless Rev 1 prototypes), makes a few minor changes to help improve balance. We know F 129 is a Rev 1...and G 135 is a Rev 2. So somewhere between those two, is when this change happened.
The upper horn: In the 2nd edition of the JD, the upper horn stays the same, in terms of length. It's still the shorthorn. What changes is the depth at which the fretboard extends into the body. It sinks roughly 1.5 frets lower, than the original design. That makes the top horn reach to about the 18th fret, with the bottom horn reaching to about fret 22. And the saddle/base of each of those horns moving up the same distance. In other words...the body shape I believe is identical to Rev 1, with just the position of the neck depth being changed.
The bridge: The Schaller bridge gets moved in this version. Again, to help improve balance a bit more. It drops roughly 2cm toward the bottom. Making the bottom edge of the bridge, no longer parallel with the last control knob. Some of these Rev 2 Thumbs seem to have a extra shim or two under the bridge (or a thicker shim), to compensate for it being so close to the rounded bottom edge on the body.
Electronics: The pup choices are the same as Rev 1. EMG is standard, with Seymour Duncan's being a custom option.
Woods: Standard was Bubinga body, with Wenge & Bubinga neck. There was a custom option for a Bubinga fretboad. Could have been a few with other body woods. Unconfirmed.
Frets: Nickel silver
Nut: JAN1
Tuners: Schaller
Serial #: The serial number on these are moved to the "classic" vintage position we're all used to. On the top edge of the headstock.
Revision 3:
Here is where the Thumb starts to look a bit more like it's modern siblings. With a big change being made to help with balance. Now there's a huge gap in info here, from Sept - Nov. The last known Rev 2 is I 195. The first known Rev 3 is John Entwistle's L 269 fretless, which sold at Sotheby's (for a amazingly cheap price) in 2003 (who owns that? Show yourself! Schlo!). So that gap is one I'd love to get filled in a little better. When exactly was that first Rev 3.
The upper horn: Say goodbye to the shorthorn. By November of '85 (probably a bit sooner), HP and crew started making the JD with what I call...the medium horn. With the top horn reaching up to about the 17th fret and the bottom horn reaching to about the 21st fret. The upper horns base/saddle starts at about the 19th fret and the lower horns base/saddle starts at about the 24th fret. It gives it a very noticeable longer top horn....with that horn also increasing a little bit in thickness/circumference, from the shorthorn's incredibly small circumference.
The bridge: The Schaller bridge stays in the same position as Rev 2.
Electronics: Same EMG default, with a Seymour Duncan custom option.
Woods: Standard was Bubinga body, with Wenge & Bubinga neck. There was a custom option for a Bubinga fretboad. Could have been a few with other body woods. Unconfirmed.
Frets: I believe somewhere around Nov-Dec, HP switches to bronze frets for the JD.
Nut: JAN1
Tuners: Schaller
Serial #: The serial number is in the same classic position at the top edge of the headstock.
Of course this info is all based on pictures that I could find on da webz...and also looking at my #125. Needless to say, there are some big gaps in exact dates/serial #'s in relation to when these changes occurred. I would LOVE to see people with '85 JD's come and share more pics and get this info a little more precise and fill in those gaps. And please correct any misinformation I may have given.
Here is a quick side by side of the all the '85 pics I could find. The angles are a bit different...but you'll get a good sense of the different revisions. I wanted to bring as much info into one thread as I could. I know I would have loved to see something like this, when I was buying mine just a few days ago. Hopefully this will help clarify some things on the first year of the godfather of Thumbs
Cheers!
Some other known shorthorns. I think the one John Davis is playing in the famous pic, is a Rev 2.
I think this is the 2nd Rev 1 prototype made for JB. No metal plate at base of fretboard, like #099, which according to that bass museum description, was the first proto for JB. Bubinga fb.
Alphonso Johnson playing a Rev 1 fretless, with one of the first ebony boards on a Thumb. Earliest known ebony fretboard on a Thumb is JD #3, fretless. We know Alphonso is not playing that one, because #3 has straight tuners.
And of course the official announcement in April of '85.
English translation:
It´s got a special design, that Jonny Davis helped develop, based on a through-neck that´s not visible at the front. The reason for this is the special manufacturing process. The body is built from a solid piece of bubinga, the seven pice neck made of wenge with bubinga stringers is integrated in the body.
A special feature are the slant mounted Schaller tuners, the bridge is Schaller as well, all hardware is black chrome. Both single-coil pickups are EMGs, the bridge pickup is mounted at an angle, so the d- and especially the g-string sound warmer.
Electronics are active with a volume control, a balance pot with center detent and as an innovation a stacked pot for bass and treble with center detent. The height adjustable Webster saddle is new as well. The neck with bubinga fingerboard has 26 frets.
Price is 2860,- DM, a version with wenge fretboard and gold hardware is available at the same price.
Gold and Black hardware options.
Known '85 causalities list:
In a tragic turn of events...#47 apparently had it's head torn off or something similar.
No pics available. RIP 47.
warwick Thumb No 47 from 1985 with neckbrake on ebay
Hans-Peter was kind enough to read over the thread and said things looked accurate...but he did note that John Davis was there as a promoter and endorser and did not have a hand in design. HP said the design is completely his own. John Davis was a player/singer based in Nuremberg. HP got in contact with him through a music store called "der Musikladen Nurnberg". He hired him to do shows, promotions and to use the "signature" JD Thumb for all the events. I'm still uncertain as to the exact arrangement between HP & JD... but whatever it was, it must have been a big honor for JD to have his initials on nearly every Thumb that left Pretzfeld for 2 years. Also it was news to me, until Flo pointed out that JD is actually one of the original voices of Milli Vanilli. Crazy! I had forgotten they were also out of Germany.
Keep in mind, this info is only as accurate as the pics I've found, info I've read and staring at every square millimeter of my JD (F 125)...like a mental patient. There are some gaps in the info...and no doubt, the cutoff/start of each revision, is a little bit different....with the end of the first revision being a little easier to pin down. Unfortunately HP doesn't remember all the details from the 80's...so it's up to us to get the history books filled. Kinda funny... HP said "it was a wired time in the 80's"... maybe he meant "weird" ....but I immediately thought of the Aviator glasses he always wore and flashes of Scarface & Miami Vice raced through my mind
_______________________________________________________
There were 3 distinct versions of the JD Thumb in 1985.
Version 1: #001 - 129
Rev 2: #130 - 255
Rev 3: #256 - 283
Version 1: The original.
The upper horn: The first two versions of JD's had the legendary ultra shorthorn. The top of the horn in the first version, only reached to the 19th fret....with the base/saddle of that horn starting at the 23rd fret. The lower horn on these first ones, only reached to fret position 23.5, with the base/saddle starting at about 25.5. One thing to note about these first JD's...is the depth at which the fretboard extends into the body. It's more inline with modern Thumbs, where that top horn saddle starts at about the 23rd fret.
The bridge: The Schaller bridge on the first JD's is more in the middle (toward the neck), than JD's to come. With the bottom edge of the bridge being parallel with the bottom edge of the last control knob.
Electronics: EMG J's were the standard, default pups....with an option for the Seymour Duncan pups w/selector switches. Early Vlad Hansel BEC preamps should have been used for both pup configs.
Woods: Standard was Bubinga body, with Wenge & Bubinga neck. There was a custom option for a Bubinga fretboad. Could have been a few with other body woods. Unconfirmed.
Frets: Nickel silver
Nut: JAN1
Tuners: Schaller. The original ad for the JD states the tuners are slanted, but that original pic shows the tuners are still straight. This is confirmed by JD #3 having straight tuners as well. Sometime between #3 and Pino's old #42, the tuners were finally slanted.
Serial #: The serial number on these JD's is located on the back of the headstock, just below the scallop and just above where the volute would eventually go.
Revision 2:
This is where HP, with input from Jack Bruce (after receiving at least 2 fretless Rev 1 prototypes), makes a few minor changes to help improve balance. We know F 129 is a Rev 1...and G 135 is a Rev 2. So somewhere between those two, is when this change happened.
The upper horn: In the 2nd edition of the JD, the upper horn stays the same, in terms of length. It's still the shorthorn. What changes is the depth at which the fretboard extends into the body. It sinks roughly 1.5 frets lower, than the original design. That makes the top horn reach to about the 18th fret, with the bottom horn reaching to about fret 22. And the saddle/base of each of those horns moving up the same distance. In other words...the body shape I believe is identical to Rev 1, with just the position of the neck depth being changed.
The bridge: The Schaller bridge gets moved in this version. Again, to help improve balance a bit more. It drops roughly 2cm toward the bottom. Making the bottom edge of the bridge, no longer parallel with the last control knob. Some of these Rev 2 Thumbs seem to have a extra shim or two under the bridge (or a thicker shim), to compensate for it being so close to the rounded bottom edge on the body.
Electronics: The pup choices are the same as Rev 1. EMG is standard, with Seymour Duncan's being a custom option.
Woods: Standard was Bubinga body, with Wenge & Bubinga neck. There was a custom option for a Bubinga fretboad. Could have been a few with other body woods. Unconfirmed.
Frets: Nickel silver
Nut: JAN1
Tuners: Schaller
Serial #: The serial number on these are moved to the "classic" vintage position we're all used to. On the top edge of the headstock.
Revision 3:
Here is where the Thumb starts to look a bit more like it's modern siblings. With a big change being made to help with balance. Now there's a huge gap in info here, from Sept - Nov. The last known Rev 2 is I 195. The first known Rev 3 is John Entwistle's L 269 fretless, which sold at Sotheby's (for a amazingly cheap price) in 2003 (who owns that? Show yourself! Schlo!). So that gap is one I'd love to get filled in a little better. When exactly was that first Rev 3.
The upper horn: Say goodbye to the shorthorn. By November of '85 (probably a bit sooner), HP and crew started making the JD with what I call...the medium horn. With the top horn reaching up to about the 17th fret and the bottom horn reaching to about the 21st fret. The upper horns base/saddle starts at about the 19th fret and the lower horns base/saddle starts at about the 24th fret. It gives it a very noticeable longer top horn....with that horn also increasing a little bit in thickness/circumference, from the shorthorn's incredibly small circumference.
The bridge: The Schaller bridge stays in the same position as Rev 2.
Electronics: Same EMG default, with a Seymour Duncan custom option.
Woods: Standard was Bubinga body, with Wenge & Bubinga neck. There was a custom option for a Bubinga fretboad. Could have been a few with other body woods. Unconfirmed.
Frets: I believe somewhere around Nov-Dec, HP switches to bronze frets for the JD.
Nut: JAN1
Tuners: Schaller
Serial #: The serial number is in the same classic position at the top edge of the headstock.
Of course this info is all based on pictures that I could find on da webz...and also looking at my #125. Needless to say, there are some big gaps in exact dates/serial #'s in relation to when these changes occurred. I would LOVE to see people with '85 JD's come and share more pics and get this info a little more precise and fill in those gaps. And please correct any misinformation I may have given.
Here is a quick side by side of the all the '85 pics I could find. The angles are a bit different...but you'll get a good sense of the different revisions. I wanted to bring as much info into one thread as I could. I know I would have loved to see something like this, when I was buying mine just a few days ago. Hopefully this will help clarify some things on the first year of the godfather of Thumbs
Cheers!
Some other known shorthorns. I think the one John Davis is playing in the famous pic, is a Rev 2.
I think this is the 2nd Rev 1 prototype made for JB. No metal plate at base of fretboard, like #099, which according to that bass museum description, was the first proto for JB. Bubinga fb.
Alphonso Johnson playing a Rev 1 fretless, with one of the first ebony boards on a Thumb. Earliest known ebony fretboard on a Thumb is JD #3, fretless. We know Alphonso is not playing that one, because #3 has straight tuners.
And of course the official announcement in April of '85.
English translation:
It´s got a special design, that Jonny Davis helped develop, based on a through-neck that´s not visible at the front. The reason for this is the special manufacturing process. The body is built from a solid piece of bubinga, the seven pice neck made of wenge with bubinga stringers is integrated in the body.
A special feature are the slant mounted Schaller tuners, the bridge is Schaller as well, all hardware is black chrome. Both single-coil pickups are EMGs, the bridge pickup is mounted at an angle, so the d- and especially the g-string sound warmer.
Electronics are active with a volume control, a balance pot with center detent and as an innovation a stacked pot for bass and treble with center detent. The height adjustable Webster saddle is new as well. The neck with bubinga fingerboard has 26 frets.
Price is 2860,- DM, a version with wenge fretboard and gold hardware is available at the same price.
Gold and Black hardware options.
Known '85 causalities list:
In a tragic turn of events...#47 apparently had it's head torn off or something similar.
No pics available. RIP 47.
warwick Thumb No 47 from 1985 with neckbrake on ebay
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